BP/W vs Jacket style BCD

I realize this is a very subjective argument, but could you guys give some of us newbies the pros and cons of BP/W and jacket style BCDs? If other newbies are anything like me, they've used jacket style in training and would probably feel uncomfortable switching to a BP/W. Here's what I've gathered so far from reading and searching:

BP/W
Pros:
-Back inflation should help with trim (although shouldn't a back inflate BCD do the same?)
-Likely easier to travel with
-Less restrictive in terms of the jacket style diaphragm squeeze (probably a big one for me since I don't like anything very restrictive around my chest/ribs when I dive)

Cons:
-Price (they seem to be more expensive than jacket style)
-No pockets so it seems like it would be harder to streamline (as if a scuba diver is streamlined anyway)

Jacket style
Pros:
-Comfortable to newer divers since training is mostly done with these
-Cheaper
-Pockets for things such as dive tables, weights, snacks , etc.

Cons:
-Feel a little restrictive, especially when inflated

This is about what I've come up with. I'm probably way off, so if the more experienced divers could help out that would be awesome. Thanks

Asams,

You are entirely correct that a BP/W vs BCD (jacket) is subjective. For those of us who use a BP/W we find the freedom it offers (no restriction of movement, frees up the chest area of needless clutter) to be worth it. With regards to what you have already written let me add:

1. Price - yep, they can be a bit expensive for the wing but if you dive single tanks and only need a single tank wing, the price will be competitive.
2. Pockets are not a problem. The harness (belt portion) of a BP/W can accommodate a whole series of slide on pockets made by various manufacturers (Dive Rite, etc..). Likewise, many divers who use a BP/W also dive in wetsuits that have pockets on the wetsuit legs. If your wetsuit does not have them already, you can buy some aftermarket types and glue them on using aqua-seal, etc...

Regards,
Ltstanfo

Asams,

BP/W:

Jacket Style:

Additional "Con's":

Another pro for the bp/w option is that it is infinitely adjustable, meaning that if you "grow" or "shrink", or a buddy with a different build than you wants to try it out, it's just a matter of adjusting the webbing a bit until it's exactly how you want it. That's never going to be an option on a traditional BC.

If you ever want to dive double, it's just a matter of getting a new wing -- rather than learning to dive a whole new BC (since traditional BC's are not made for doubles). This may or may not be applicable to you.

As for the bp/w and back-inflate having the same trimming characteristics, it's true that the wing only inflates from the back....but the BC is inherently more buoyant than the bp/w, meaning you would need to add weight to compensate for that. The bp/w has no positive buoyancy to it, so this allows you to remove weight from your belt (and also puts the weight directly above your lungs, where you want it for optimal trim).

I have really no idea how much a jacket BC costs, but I do know that many back-inflate BC's are equally or more expensive than bp/w (unless your dive shop is giving you a killer price). I would have guessed jacket BC's would be comparably priced to back-inflates, but maybe not.

I think you got some good answers here asams. Seems to me everyone pretty much nailed it.

I only wish to add my opinion about cost.
I think that while good BP/W's are more expensive than jackets upfront. In the end most will end up saving money by getting into one as a first BCD. Jackets are cheaper, IMHO, because the Mfg's expect you will ware it out and buy another one. If you choose a quality Mfg with a nice long term track record you will find that in the long haul the BP/W will be the cheapest system you can own.... you'll most probably never 'need' to replace it... you may 'choose' to do so but there will, most likely, be 'no need' to do so.

I just wanted to make a comment about pockets and the BP&W, like I said in another post:

"Ahh.. but the pockets are one of my FAVORITE things about a BP&W. Most of the BCs I have owned and used had nearly worthless pockets. They can be hard to reach into, too small, confusing, etc etc. With the BP&W, you can choose where to put pockets, what size they are, how they open, or you can put pockets on your exposure suit."

Many BCs have pockets that are too small and too awkward to get into to be useful. Also, there are some designs that put the weight pocket and storage pocket together in the same spot, and I have seen people open a pocket to retrieve something and accidentally open the weight pocket and drop a weight. IMO the best thing about pockets on a BP is that you can pick where you want them, how big they are, if they are zippered or velcro, etc. Gives you lots of choices.
Like with anything else, is is best if you can try before you buy.
Good luck with your decision.

While on the subject of BP/w

Here is the one I am oogling...

Do you guys think this is good gear and what options should I choose?

TECHNICAL SCUBA BCD PACKAGE

Just don't forget the crotch strap and cam straps!

I dive both, though my BCDs tend to be back inflate. I don't have a problem with trim in any thing I have worn for some time. Oceanic Chute II, Zeagle Stiletto and Zeagle Tech Express are BCs that I have worn recently. I think they all worked great!

When it comes to a BP&Wing, I just love my Deep Sea Supply single or double wings with the Kydex Backplate! Awesome for traveling as well!

Price: You can get a plate for $50-$60, webbing and hardware for $20, and a wing for $150-$200. That's all new, you can also buy all of this stuff used and it'll probably last for years. If you are diving singles, you'll need cam bands and an STA, which will cost another $60 easily. So...it might be more expensive than a lower priced jacket BC new, but I think BP/W's are the sort of thing one should try to buy used, because they last for so long. (Especially the plate, STA and cambands. If you are uncomfortable with a used wing, you can still save a lot of money by buying the other stuff used, then putting on new wing and webbing.)

Some more thoughts:
BP/W
Pros:
-infinitely adjustable, user replacable parts. You can change webbing and avoid buying a new BC if you change size or sell/give the gear to someone of a different size. And, if the webbing breaks, you can replace it, rather than having to buy a new BC and yes, I have had BC's rip.
-User fixable wings. Zip it open, find the pinhole you made somehow, and patch it.
-Lasts for forever. Ok, so maybe the wing and webbing wear out, but in 60 years I bet the plate is still in ok shape...even if you ran over it, you could bend it back

Cons: If you are diving without a wetsuit, I don't like how the plate feels on my back. But I've got almost no body fat...it hits my bones. If I had a little more meat on me, this wouldn't be an issue. As it is, I use a pad on the plate and I'm good to go.
-Can be finicky to adjust at first. I'm of the opinion that they are actually easier to use than a BC, but that it really helps to have a buddy help set it up on you.
-hard to share, due to infinite adjustability (takes time to adjust) . But, you can buy another plate and webbing and share wings...

Jacket BCs
Pros: You can get them used when shops sell their gear, really cheap. But they might not be in good shape. Still, I picked up a BC that lasted me for a year for $75.
-Pretty colours

Cons:
-not infinitely adjustable.
-Do not help your trim
-Have pockets and buckles and excess webbing in all the wrong places
-almost never have nice SS hardware
-velcro tends to wear out and it's impossible to replace just the one pocket.
-hard for users to fix broken parts


I believe a good diver can use either system, but I definitely have my preferences. If I had been exposed to a BP/W in my OW class, I would have bought one instead of buying a BC, but that's just me.

The real difference between a BP/W and a traditional BC is the diver.

BP/W divers generally dive more, tend to be more adventurous and pursue additional training and as such tend to be more passionate about their gear selections.

Traditional BCD divers are more laid back, diver purely recreationally and are simply thrilled to be diving and as such, tend not to be as passionate about their gear selection.

The reality is that a good diver can dive equally as well in either configuration recreationally but the BP/W is essential in non-recreational diving. (cave/wreck/doubles/deep)

For me, I think I have the best of both worlds, the WTX Harness.