Thinking about a 60 foot snorkel….

[Bubble_Boy]

60 foot is not that deep, why go through all the trouble of compressing air into tanks instead of making a 60 foot snorkel? The tip of the snorkel would float with a buoy at the surface and that's all there is to it no? I can orally inflate my BCD, and for safe practice I'd bring a pony along…
Anyone see a problem with my genius system?

[hypertech]

Can your lungs exert enough force to overcome 2 atmospheres of pressure differential? Mine can't.

[ozziworld]

Even on the surface it won't work. You will have 60 ft worth of CO2 in there after a few breaths.

[iztok]

Not to mention a lot of dead air space in such a long snorkel.

[aquaregia]

1. Pressure equalization
2. Dead air space

Pretty sure this won't work even with a 4' snorkel.

[TC]

You might want to calculate out the volume of air contained in the snorkel, it should be somewhat larger than the volume of air you inhale and exhale in a single breath, resulting in you breathing the same air in and out repeatedly.

Don't think I'd classify this as a "genius system", but it does have potential to win a Darwin award. :D

[Mopar]

Can your lungs exert enough force to overcome 2 atmospheres of pressure differential? Mine can't.

I would be worried if anyones could do that. :popcorn:

[Cave Diver]

.


http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/323664-breathing-30ft-snorkel.html


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[VooDooGasMan]

Bubbleboy, prove them all wrong, Try it, like you said 60' is not that deep, and you will have your pony with you.




Happy Diving

[DevonDiver]

1. You couldn't inhale against that much water pressure. If breathing from a snorkle, you'd be using air at 1atm, but would have 2.8atm of pressure against your chest. Scuba works because it is delivered at ambient pressure (it matches external pressure at any given depth), but a snorkle wouldn't do that. That is why other 'surface supplied' air systems utilise compressed gas.

2. You'd be inhaling, exhaling and then inhaling again the same air from the snorkel. After a short while it would be de-oxygenated and CO2 levels would be toxic. You could design a clever 1 way valve and exhaust valve to remedy that, but #1 would still make it unworkable anyway.

[Bubble_Boy]

lol, I guess you all set me straight :P

[Cave Diver]

lol, I guess you all set me straight :P

If you want a more extensive discussion, look at the link I provided in post #8.

[PatW]

As I recall, the maximum depth that a person's muscles can over come the water pressure is a mere 3'. As other people have mentioned, there is the additional problem of the "dead" space of a snorkle. If it gets too long, your tidal volume will not exceed the volume in the snorkel. You will just keep rebreathing the old dead air. Another difficulty is the snorkel itself has to be able to keep from collapsing under the increased pressure. A fourth difficulty is the top of the snorkel. A wake from a passing boat could swamp the snorkel. Or even worse, a boat could just drive right over it. In some areas I have been, it seems as if the majority of the boaters have freely indulged in alcohol and stimulants.

[Rhone Man]

I remember as a kid trying a similar experiment with a garden hose, but I found I couldn't inhale any deeper than about 4 feet under. Fortunately I gave up quickly otherwise the CO2 retention might have caused me to black out.

[Tanked]

Whats a snorkle? :dontknow:

[Bubble_Boy]

If you want a more extensive discussion, look at the link I provided in post #8.

I read it Cave Diver, thanks for posting!

[DevonDiver]

Whats a snorkle? :dontknow:

Urban Dictionary: snorkle (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snorkle)

:rofl3:

[Bubble_Boy]

Urban Dictionary: snorkle (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snorkle)

:rofl3:

I read all thirteen definitions, wondering when our conventional snorkel would be described.... it wasn't lol

[ianr33]

Not to mention a lot of dead air space in such a long snorkel.

Just make it really narrow to reduce dead space to a minimum.

Simple.

[Hashime]

Okay, If you somehow managed to overcome the water pressure on your lungs you would need a way to get rid of the co2 in the snorkel. This means not breathing out through the same tube.
You should totally give is a shot though, on video of course. Just have a buddy down there ready to give you air when you realize it is impossible.

[mrfixitchapman]

Whats a snorkle? :dontknow:

A submarine snorkel is a device that allows a submarine to operate submerged while still taking in air from above the surface. Its common military name is snort.

Until the advent of nuclear power, submarines were designed to operate on the surface most of the time and submerge only for evasion or for rare daylight attacks. In 1940, at night, a U-boat was safer on the surface than submerged because ASDIC sonar could detect boats underwater but was almost useless against a surface vessel. However, with the continued improvement in methods of radar detection and attack, as the war progressed, the U-boat was forced to spend more and more time underwater running on electric motors that gave speeds of only a few knots and with very limited endurance. A submarine that stayed underwater for more than a few hours also encountered various disposal problems and had to store garbage internally, further fouling boats already notorious for their odors.

DC

[pjones]

Once, just once, can't we persuade someone to try this on video before we tell them the answer. It just takes all the fun out of it when they're given the right answer straight away... ;)

[Insta-Gator]

http://home.flash.net/~table/gasses/boyle1.htm

[Tool Belt]

I thought April Fools was a few days ago.

[Bubble_Boy]

ok... I understand boyle's law.... I understand all of the difficulties of this idea being possible... but the more I think about it, the more it seems realistic…

#1 - Exhaust valve
#2 - If the snorkel is made of hard plastic, the ambient pressure won't be transferred to the air inside. If it's made of soft plastic, the snorkel will collapse. But what if it's made of a softer to an increasingly harder material as you go down in depth. Just enough so that it doesn't collapse and just enough to have ambient pressure transfer to it….

ok guys, try and kill my genius idea now!

[Tanked]

I have trouble handling my 6 foot hose! I couldn't imagine a 60 foot

[mrfixitchapman]

I have a five-foot hose. I'm told that I manage it very well.

DC

[Cave Diver]

ok... I understand boyle's law.... I understand all of the difficulties of this idea being possible... but the more I think about it, the more it seems realistic…

#1 - Exhaust valve
#2 - If the snorkel is made of hard plastic, the ambient pressure won't be transferred to the air inside. If it's made of soft plastic, the snorkel will collapse. But what if it's made of a softer to an increasingly harder material as you go down in depth. Just enough so that it doesn't collapse and just enough to have ambient pressure transfer to it….

ok guys, try and kill my genius idea now!

Be sure to video tape your attempt and post it to YouTube.

[udtfire]

try it ill show up to recover the body. why ? really? you should have learned that in open water

[spectrum]

ok... I understand boyle's law.... I understand all of the difficulties of this idea being possible... but the more I think about it, the more it seems realistic…

#1 - Exhaust valve
#2 - If the snorkel is made of hard plastic, the ambient pressure won't be transferred to the air inside. If it's made of soft plastic, the snorkel will collapse. But what if it's made of a softer to an increasingly harder material as you go down in depth. Just enough so that it doesn't collapse and just enough to have ambient pressure transfer to it….

ok guys, try and kill my genius idea now!

We'll give you the exhaust valve part. that will easily eliminate the dead air space problem. A couple of well placed mushroom valves can keep the air fresh.

As for the tube, if it opens to the water then water will fill it from the bottom up as water seeks it's own level. The hardness of the material won't have an effect on this. I would be concerned that if you were to plug the mouthpiece with your tongue, it followed by the rest of you would be pushed up the tube.:shocked2: Obviously not much of you will fit but your tongue could get into real trouble. It's somewhat analogous to issues with early hard had diving rigs.

Pete

[Charlie99]

#2 - If the snorkel is made of hard plastic, the ambient pressure won't be transferred to the air inside. If it's made of soft plastic, the snorkel will collapse. But what if it's made of a softer to an increasingly harder material as you go down in depth. Just enough so that it doesn't collapse and just enough to have ambient pressure transfer to it….

ok guys, try and kill my genius idea now!The physics are still against you. Imagine that somehow your snorkel has managed to change pressure in the air to match ambient. Now you have 2.8ata at one end of the tube and 1ata at the other end. That large pressure differential will cause a very strong flow of air from the bottom, up and out of the top of the snorkel.

Except that you don't have an air source a the bottom, so ........
yep. It ain't gonna happen.

Now compare this to a 60' long hose open on both ends, one end above water, one down at 60'. The reason the water is at equilibrium is the weight of the water column. If you replace the water with air, then the much lighter weight of air means the column of air is not in equilibrium.

[bygolly]

The physics are still against you. Imagine that somehow your snorkel has managed to change pressure in the air to match ambient. Now you have 2.8ata at one end of the tube and 1ata at the other end. That large pressure differential will cause a very strong flow of air from the bottom, up and out of the top of the snorkel.



And then this might happen:

LEY3fN4N3D8

They had this guy at 270 feet or so but even at 60.....well:shocked2:

[Bubble_Boy]

lol, i give up, it's a stupid idea :P

[Bubble_Boy]

No wait! what if we had 1 way flow chambers throughout the snorkel? that way pressure could be different at different levels and air couldn't go back up the tube!?

[pjones]

lol, i give up, it's a stupid idea :P

Really? So quick? But you haven't tried it yet. How do you know were not all lying to you so we can take your idea and market it. You know they always say not to trust people on the internet. You should attempt this theory of yours before giving up on it so quick.

... Don't forget the camera! ;)

[DevonDiver]

No wait! what if we had 1 way flow chambers throughout the snorkel? that way pressure could be different at different levels and air couldn't go back up the tube!?

You still wouldn't suck it down against the water pressure on your chest.

Basically, you're talking about using your lungs to compress the air to 2.8atm.

It's time to review your physics...Scuba Diving Physics - The Gas Laws (http://www.scubatechphilippines.com/scuba-physics-gas-laws.html)

[Bubble_Boy]

Really? So quick? But you haven't tried it yet. How do you know were not all lying to you so we can take your idea and market it. You know they always say not to trust people on the internet. You should attempt this theory of yours before giving up on it so quick.

... Don't forget the camera! ;)

All I got to say to you is this -> :mooner:

[Bubble_Boy]

You still wouldn't suck it down against the water pressure on your chest.

Basically, you're talking about using your lungs to compress the air to 2.8atm.

It's time to review your physics...Scuba Diving Physics - The Gas Laws (http://www.scubatechphilippines.com/scuba-physics-gas-laws.html)

Thank You Devon... NOW I give up with this dumb idea :P

[pjones]

No wait! what if we had 1 way flow chambers throughout the snorkel? that way pressure could be different at different levels and air couldn't go back up the tube!?

Ok lets think of it like this...

If you take a pop bottle down to depth but have a hose attached from the drinking spout on the bottle to the ocean surface you will notice that the bottle crushes as it goes deeper. The water pushes the air out of the bottle through the hose to atmosphere. The water is heavier than air so it pushes on the bottle with more and more weight as you go deeper.

You will notice the same effect when you put a rubber glove on your hand and dip your hand in water. The glove will have all the air pushed out of it and squeeze your hand.

The water is going to do the same thing to your lungs as you descend to depths. Your diaphragm is going to have to overcome the crushing forces of the water that is trying to collapse your lungs. If you went down to depth and tried to breath through the snorkel than it would feel like you're trying to breath against a vacuum and the air would get sucked out in a similar manor.

Adding a check valve to the tube will stop the air from getting sucked out but it will not give you the strength required to over come the weight of the water that is pushing against your chest in order to pull air into your lungs.

Breathing compressed gas through a regulator allows the gas to enter your lungs at a pressure equal to the weight of water that is pushing against you.

[pjones]

Well, would you look at that, the thread had already been resolved by the time I completed my post. I need to get side tracked less often... :shakehead:

[k ellis]

A submarine snorkel is a device that allows a submarine to operate submerged while still taking in air from above the surface. Its common military name is snort.

Until the advent of nuclear power, submarines were designed to operate on the surface most of the time and submerge only for evasion or for rare daylight attacks. In 1940, at night, a U-boat was safer on the surface than submerged because ASDIC sonar could detect boats underwater but was almost useless against a surface vessel. However, with the continued improvement in methods of radar detection and attack, as the war progressed, the U-boat was forced to spend more and more time underwater running on electric motors that gave speeds of only a few knots and with very limited endurance. A submarine that stayed underwater for more than a few hours also encountered various disposal problems and had to store garbage internally, further fouling boats already notorious for their odors.

DC

to add to that definition. Also a submarine depending on location and surrounding water temperatures the snorkle often times caused the diesel engines to run at a reduced speed as the intake of air was intended for both operation of the diesel combustion air intake as well as supply fresh ventilated air to the crew. As the snorkle was a small opening due to its size alone the air had to be shared between both crew and the engines. Though it was possible to run the diesel engines at flank speed this was rarely done to conserve air quality inside of th submarine. This also proved important should the submarine come under attack they would have adequate air within for the prolonged period of time without the snorkle.

the snorkle consisted of two main parts as well located on the front of the snorkle was the fresh air intake. This took in the fresh air in sort of a scoop fashion. Located on that same snorkle however in a second pipe within the primary snorkle was the exhaust valve located on the back of the snorkle at a significant height diffrence to allow the oncoming wind to blow the exhaust away from the intake.

This snorkle actually was believed to have been capable of changing the outcome of world war 2 significantly had it had been invented sooner and equipped on more u boats

[haumana ronin]

You still wouldn't suck it down against the water pressure on your chest.

Basically, you're talking about using your lungs to compress the air to 2.8atm.

It's time to review your physics...Scuba Diving Physics - The Gas Laws (http://www.scubatechphilippines.com/scuba-physics-gas-laws.html)

Thank You Devon... NOW I give up with this dumb idea :P

Wait wait wait. What if there was some way to pull vacuum on the outside of your chest. :crazyeye: I propose some sort of hard-shell inverse pressure dry suit for your torso. Hopefully it would be balanced and well controlled so it doesnt create a giant torso hickie on the surface.

:zen:

[ianr33]

Wait wait wait. What if there was some way to pull vacuum on the outside of your chest. :crazyeye: I propose some sort of hard-shell inverse pressure dry suit for your torso. Hopefully it would be balanced and well controlled so it doesnt create a giant torso hickie on the surface.

:zen:

Just need a 1 ATM NEWT suit or similar. Have 2 snorkel tubes with one way valves,air comes down one tube and out of the other. That eliminates the dead space problem.

What's wrong with this idea? (Apart from the cost!)