Putting together a new kit.

Howdy!

I'm putting together my kit (first time, I've been diving off rented/borrowed gear since I got certified since I didn't want to buy anything overpriced in the Caribbean). I'm planning on going with BP&W for both my recreational and tech diving, rather than using jacket style for one, and switching to BP&W for doubles. I haven't done too much diving with a BP&W, around 10 dives when I did my Deco. procedures & Adv. Nitrox course, all of my other dives have been with singles and a jacket style BCD.

I figured I'd pick up a single tank wing, and a doubles wing and probably an AL bp (lighter weight, better for travel) and probably a simple hogarthian harness. I believe I can re-use the BP and harness for both the single/double wing, so the only duplicate bit of equipment I'll be lugging around is the doubles wing. I know there are some wings that claim to be both single/double, but from what I understand, they're really a hack, and don't do a good job with either.

I'm 6', weigh around 150, although I do tend to vary a bit (up to 170 and down to 140). I'm trying to figure out which brand/style(donut? full circle?) I should go with. When diving with a jacket style BCD, I never had to add air to the BCD, I dove with 4 pounds and felt fine without touching my LP inflator, I dove with AL 80s, I believe. With doubles, I was heavily negative with a steel BP. I wasn't diving with any sort of suit in either of these cases, just trunks/t-shirt. With a shorty, on the singles, I throw on another 2 pounds, and again, don't add any air to the BCD at any point. I usually dive atleast 2 dives off a single tank(3 if they weren't deep dives), so the weight reduction once the tank goes light doesn't seem to bother me.

I've narrowed the brands to: Halcyon, OMS, DeepSeaSupply, and OxyCheq. Halcyon seems to have a very nice harness system but to state the obvious, their prices are through the roof. I was using an OMS wing when I did my tech course, but I'm not looking for a bungeed wing (apparently frowned upon by cave divers, and that's something I'm planning on pursuing once I get a couple of hundred tech dives under my belt), and I can't find too much info on other OMS gear in terms of reviews, Halcyon as I mentioned earlier, seem to be the Apple of the industry where you end up paying quite a bit more for the logo than the actual gear, I haven't found any bad reviews of their stuff though.
OxyCheq seems to have the most rugged gear of the lot, but their customer service apparently isn't very good. Customer service is pretty important since I'll be traveling with this stuff and won't be able to bring it back to the States to have it serviced or such every couple of months, so if it breaks I'd like to be able to send it off and get it back quickly.
So, this pretty much leaves DeepSeaSupply. I figured I should go for the maximum amount of lift I can get, because it never hurts, is this wrong? Any thoughts on full circle vs "LCD" vs donut? I believe that none of the above wings need a single tank adapter, I assume that's not just a marketing gimmick? (i.e, you don't "need" one, but you probably should use one?)

My instructor also said I should look into HOG(Highly optimized gear), but I haven't been able to find much in terms of reviews/ruggedness/customer service about them. Any thoughts?

I'm planning on doing both warm-water and cold-water dives with this gear, I haven't done any dry suit diving yet, all of my diving up to now has been in the Caribbean.

I've done around 150 dives in the last 3 months, and will be traveling all of next year diving, and hope to knock back around 1000 dives, most of which will be warm-ish water dives, but with regular deco dives, I'll probably end up wearing something more than a shorty.

Anyway, any advice w.r.t. the brands(any others I should consider? any thoughts on the ones on my shortlist)/style/gear in general/any other considerations that I should keep in mind that you have would be much appreciated.

Also, I've read a bit about the DSS wing not being ideal for non-cold water diving, because it has a tendency to make one head heavy, any thoughts on this? (Specifically: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-154519.html).

Thanks!

It's really a good thing to draw from the experience of more than one experienced scuba guru diver.
My contribution would be to tell not to buy a big lift wing for traveling to warm water resorts, sport diving with an aluminum rental tank.

Capt.Gene:

It's really a good thing to draw from the experience of more than one experienced scuba guru diver.
My contribution would be to tell not to buy a big lift wing for traveling to warm water resorts, sport diving with an aluminum rental tank.

Click to expand...

For my doubles, I definitely want as much lift as I can get, based on the limited experience I have. The singles I'm definitely on the fence, since, as you said, that wing will mainly be used for good ol' recreational diving. My only concern is if I end up going hunting or such with it, I could use the additional lift to haul around lobster, or conch or such. But at the same time, could probably use a lift bag and save myself some trouble.

Thanks for your input!

PM sent

you can get un-bungeed OMS wings, and while their products are fantastic, their customer service sucks. Other words that would be more appropriate but they would get censored. As far as I can tell, the HOG wings are near identical to the unbungeed OMS wings. Great CS from Chris and they're top notch products.
Gonna set some stuff straight real quick.
An AL backplate while lighter, does not necessarily make it better for travel. An extra 4lbs is not really significant and if it means that you have no weight belt it's worth it.
Sounds like you need two full rigs. You can't really dive AL80's and double steels with the same plate without compensating. You either need a weight belt with the 80's, or you dive too heavy on the steels. Neither is that great. That being said, I don't dive 80's and I use a soft backplate. The AL plate sounds like a good idea if you're diving steel doubles and with that you can get a weighted STA for the AL80 if you want to go that route. The STA isn't the "best" option for singles, but if you're switching back and forth regularly the ease of switching is nice.
You DO NOT want to go for the biggest wing possible. Equivalent is a belt. I have a 38 inch waist. I could potentially have a 50 inch waist in 4 years so I'm going to buy a 50" belt. That's no good because that's a LOT of extra that I don't need. So you want to figure out what your maximum weight requirements are and plan around that. 60lbs is the "common" wing size. that's +- a few pounds depending on who makes the wing. Most doubles are somewhere in the 30 ish pound range when they are full, so that gives you a bit of extra. If you have a wing that is too big it does the same thing that the "combo" wings aren't so good with and that's wrapping around the tanks and having problems moving air around. The DiveRite Rec wing actually works real well as a doubles wing if you have the older double 72's or 7" tanks that are closer together than the modern 8.46" spacing. I use one with my 72's and it's great, but they're light tanks, so that's out of the norm. They work well enough for singles if you dive singles once in a blue moon.
HOG Gear BP/W Full Set - Doubles - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL
That's a good deal. Less than $400 for a doubles setup. Get an AL plate. The Hollis harness doesn't matter because the harness won't be warrantied. All the webbing comes from the same place, and so do the D-rings. Mike is a great guy to deal with and won't steer you wrong. Then you can get a used singles wing somewhere and work with that.
Oxycheq makes a weighted STA that is 6lbs negative and could work if you only want to deal with 1 harness. The manufacturers are claiming the STA's aren't needed, and if you have a dedicated singles setup, they aren't. For me, I dive sidemount doubles and singles off of my Nomad, and doubles and singles on my Transpac, and spinning two wing nuts is easier for me than mucking with cam bandsand allows me to only have that one harness *it's rare I use my nomad for anything other than sidemount. only happens if a buddy needs to borrow my transpac*.

As far as HOG goes we have two singles wings now. A 32 lb horseshoe that I have been diving for a year now and really like. The wing has plenty of lift and is well made. The newest one currently available is the 23lb singles wing that's a donut shape and I just got mine set up. The unique thing about it is a ten year warranty against pinch flats. Which if you are doing a lot of traveling makes a lot of sense. Service is second to none. We also have donuts coming out in a 32lb singles, 38lb or so doubles, and 58lb doubles which is big enough for any set of double steel tanks. I have a HOG 58lb horseshoe. I can also supply you with a stainless steel or aluminum plate. The al plates come in either red or black finish. Couple that with a HOG harness and a couple cam bands and you'd be set. And if you are looking for a deal visit my website on black friday and click on the specials page or FAQ page since my web guy seem to be having problems getting my specials page up and see what I can do for you.

One thing you need to do is start with the singles set up. As much as I'd like to sell you two wings you may find that having set ups for both sinlges and doubles works better and is more convenient.

Congratulations on the new stuff - even if premature.

Your thoughts about minimalist systems and simplistic rigging are spot-on. Unlike many industries (cars, electronics, homes), diving is a "less is more" kind of thing. You'll find that the most experienced and expert divers are those that dive with the least amount of "stuff." Maintaining this philosophy, diving for them can easily progress into caving, wrecking, decompression, and more because they don't own 15 different rigs for 15 different "kinds" of diving - they own one rig that does it all. Or two identical concepts, like one bp/wing for singles and another for doubles, for example.

You're dead-on about a lot of your thoughts, especially that a bp/wing is the way to go. You're also in a great mindset to be thinking about a simplistic Hogarthian harness, which works for every "kind" of diving.

Personally, I prefer the trim characteristics of a stainless steel plate, which places 6 pounds over your lungs - the most buoyant part of your body. This also takes 6 pounds off of your belt, which can be a great thing. However, in light of your desire to travel and in light of your choice to dive without a wetsuit, I would go aluminum and agree with you on that choice. Something tells me, though, that as your dives get more extreme, you'll enjoy the heavier plate. Your call. Plates are cheap, comparatively. Buy both. I don't use my aluminums anymore, in case you're asking, but then again, I don't dive without a wetsuit either. I probably would if I did.

Regardless, I recommend Oxycheq's plates. They're originally a Scott Koplin design, and very, very sweet.

Yes, you do want the single tank adapter, even though many wings don't require them. I recommend the Oxycheq "Light Weight" single tank adapter. I haven't been impressed by the mini, and the weighted ones fit tanks poorly. No single tank adapter is doable, but they're always a compromise to the stability and simplicity of a STA.

For the harness, I'm a fan of the Oxycheq "Low Profile D-Ring" Hogarthian harness. It's simple, concise, fully adjustable in any way you want, and extremely streamlined. Straight D-Rings, not bent ones, on your chest if you are asked. No annoying little blue H's everywhere, and actually better quality webbing.

For the wing, I have found no substitute for Halcyon's 30-pound Eclipse and 40-pound Evolve wings. Their inflators are short and made of a better material than Oxycheq's, and IMHO the Oxycheq "bulletproof" material is pointless. In thousands of dives, I have never holed a wing, even though I'm often scraping barnacles and oysters off the bottoms of boats - with sharp tools. The issue that I most often see regarding wings is the wear of the seams, which fray and splinter after 500 dives or so. They simply wear out. Halcyon replaces them for free in accordance with their warranty. I can not attest to any other company doing that. Worth the price, IMHO.

The only thought that you have that I would warn against would be your thought about the size of the wing. Yes, it seems like "more is better," but that's not true. The larger the wing, the more water you have to push out of the way when you swim. Effectively, the larger the wing, the more it acts like a parachute underwater... So you want the smallest wing possible. Ditto because you're traveling with it. Large wings also tend to create stability issues, especially when there's a small bubble inside it... It simply moves around a lot, and the larger the wing, the more room it has to move, and the more difficult it is to stabilize yourself underwater. (Experienced divers call the big-wing phenomenon "tacoing.") The 30-pound single and 40-pound doubles wings are ideal for skin and wetsuit diving. Step it up to the 40 and 60 pound models for drysuit diving, which sounds like you're a ways away from right now.

Yes, a lift bag is a much better idea than using your wing or BC to lift heavy objects. That way, if you drop the heavy item during ascent, you don't end up with a fast, uncontrolled ascent. Anything less than 10 pounds or so (which would be like 20 pounds out of the water) is fine for lifting without a bag, since a quick dump of 10 pounds of air from your wing is pretty easy.

Stainless-buckled tank straps are far superior to plastic ones, and very underestimated in the industry. Halcyon makes some, but I much prefer the ones made by Scubapro that come apart completely when strapping your tank to your rig. This enables you to change tanks with the backplate laying down, rather than standing up, which is great on a rocking boat or whatever. If there is one recommendation that I want to emphasize, this is it. I can't tell you how many divers have seen me put a tank on and said, "Wow... I like that!" These straps come standard on Scubapro BC's, but can be special ordered by any Scubapro dealer. When using them, be sure to tuck them all the way toward the plate (I like mine on my right side) so as to avoid the entanglement hazard of the large buckle.

Lastly, get with your local scuba guru when you get your rig in and have him/her help you set it up. Fitment is absolutely critical with a backplate and wing, and the shoulder straps always seems to need to be let out - and the crotch strap tightened - on rigs that I see people wear. The straps should be LOOSE, and held in place with the crotchstrap. The only time the plate's too low is if you can't reach back (right hand over right shoulder with pinky touching right ear) and fingertip-touch the top edge of the plate. You'll also find that shoulder straps are too loose when they're constantly falling off your shoulders during a dive. Other than those two things, wear that backplate as low as you can. This will also facilitate donning and doffing. You should never need a "quick release" buckle. If you're thinking about it, then your shoulder straps are too tight.

Good luck with your purchases, and welcome to the world of the DIR philosophy. You're already on the right track.

Okay, so far here's the stuff I've changed on the buy list:
Go with the right amount of lift, rather than the max (which for me would be the BCD with the smallest amount of lift).
Buy a STA (OxyCheq probably).
Stick with AL (4lbs is quite a bit of extra weight, I travel with a single bag and would like to keep everything, kit, clothes, etc under 40 pounds).
Wings: Halcyon might be worth it, simply for the customer service, removing oxycheq/OMS from my shortlist, and leaving HOG on there for now.. that leaves: Halcyon, HOG, DSS.

With halcyon, the eclipse seems to come with a stainless steel STA, how much does this weigh? It also comes with a harness, but it doesn't seem to be a hogarthian style, any opinions on the harness etc?

I'm really against the thought of extra gear, so I'm really not sure about purchasing an additional BP for the doubles which some have recommended, I guess having a weighted STA is one option here.

Finally, does any other company make the stainless buckled tank straps other than scubapro/halcyon?

Thanks!

STA weighs 2lbs, the steel cam bands weigh 1lb each as well. Halcyon is generally hogarthian only.
PLENTY of companies make the stainless straps.
If you want an older more established brand than HOG, which is your choice, here's another option
buy Dive Rite Travel EXP Package at northeastscubasupply.com - Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Dive Rite Travel EXP Package - Northeast Scuba Supply
$300 for AL plate, small wing, SS cam bands, no STA needed with that one, but you could use it. One piece harness.
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Deep Sea Supply Single Tank Backplate and Wing Package
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Deep Sea Supply Single Tank Backplate and Wing Package
There's the deep sea supply 20lb and 30lb wing, great price on that too.

People will remind you that you get what you pay for, but don't be tricked into paying MSRP if you can avoid it. That diverite package is that low because john quite literally will buy a thousand backplates and wings at a time and that's how he can keep those prices that low, DiveRite has fantastic quality products. Plates are plates, harnesses are harnesses. Wings are not always wings, but all the ones mentioned are great quality

saxplayer1004:

STA weighs 2lbs, the steel cam bands weigh 1lb each as well. Halcyon is generally hogarthian only.
PLENTY of companies make the stainless straps.
If you want an older more established brand than HOG, which is your choice, here's another option
buy Dive Rite Travel EXP Package at northeastscubasupply.com - Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Dive Rite Travel EXP Package - Northeast Scuba Supply
$300 for AL plate, small wing, SS cam bands, no STA needed with that one, but you could use it. One piece harness.
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Deep Sea Supply Single Tank Backplate and Wing Package
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Deep Sea Supply Single Tank Backplate and Wing Package
There's the deep sea supply 20lb and 30lb wing, great price on that too.

People will remind you that you get what you pay for, but don't be tricked into paying MSRP if you can avoid it. That diverite package is that low because john quite literally will buy a thousand backplates and wings at a time and that's how he can keep those prices that low, DiveRite has fantastic quality products. Plates are plates, harnesses are harnesses. Wings are not always wings, but all the ones mentioned are great quality

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One thing I've been wondering- What's the difference between the LCD wing and the full circle?

Thanks!