Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 205,000 divers diving from around the world. If the topic is related to scuba diving, this is the place to find divers talking about it. To gain full access to ScubaBoard (and make this large box go away) you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

  • Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 5,500,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
  • Post your own photos or view from well over 100,000 user submitted images.
  • Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
  • Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
  • Find a dive buddy or communicate directly with scuba equipment manufacturers.

All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

NEW for 2014 Access SBlogbook for members. It allows you to directly upload data from your dive computer, validate your logs digitally, link your dives to photos, videos, dive centers (9,000 on file), fishes (14,000 on file) and much more.

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 137
Like Tree54Likes

Thread: How serious a screw-up was this?

 


  1. #21
    Will be missed


    It's pronounced CARE-oh, and
    it means "Of course I
    want to!"
     

    Quero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Dives
    I just don't log dives
    Photos
    5
    Blog Entries
    4
    I don't personally think it's the operator's screw up at all. Not even 1/10. It is entirely the diver's and his buddy's responsibility to make sure that the team is ready to hit the water. If the boat crew assists in setting up gear, that's a bonus (and may deserve a tip) not an obligation. The obligation rests squarely and completely on the shoulders of the diver--quite literally, too, since the tank is strapped to his back.

    Here where I work, we often set gear up for our divers, or at least assist them. But we leave the air off after we test tank pressure for the duration of the boat ride out. Once we reach our dive site, it's up to the divers to turn their air on, release the bungies or whatever is holding the tank, and gear up. It's no more our responsibility if the diver forgets to turn on his air than it is if he forgets to defog his mask or strap on his dive computer, or grabs the wrong fins.

    New divers often feel a little rushed. It's one effect of task loading. That's why it's so very important to go through the checks consciously--it slows things down and keeps your thinking organized so that oversights like forgetting to turn on air are prevented.

  2. #22
    Registered


    Maui dives now booked and
    confirmed!
     

    freewillie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal Beach Cities
    Posts
    1,086
    Dives
    50 - 99
    I'm still pretty much a newbie, but if there is anything I've learned from hanging out here on SB the diver is ultimately responsible for their own gear and their own actions. Predive routine is to avoid these situations. If the guy just checked his reg by purging to see if it was working before hs went over the side he would have realized his air was off. If nothing else he should have checked how many PSI he had before entering the water. As for seriousness, I would rate it a 9/10 mistake for any diver newbie or experienced since can have very dire consequences.

    I almost did something similar. Was about my second dive after certification. I put my first stage on the tank but wanted to turn the air on just before I put my BC on. When I clipped the last buckle realized I had put it on without turning on the air. I sheepishly admitted to my buddy during buddy check he needed to turn my air on.

    fun and safe diving to all.

  3. #23
    Tech Instructor
    Go Red - Support SB!

    PADI/SSI/BSAC/ANDI/TecRec
    Tec/Advanced Sidemount,Trimix,
    Technical Wreck Instructor
     

    DevonDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Subic Bay, Philippines
    Posts
    13,432
    Dives
    5,000 - ∞
    Photos
    161
    Blog Entries
    23
    My only real question is - what happened to the buddy check?

    I see this a lot with moderately experienced divers. They get comfortable in the water and that leads to complacency. There's no reason not to do a comprehensive buddy check before each dive. The buddy check exists to forewarn the diver about any equipment malfunctions (because we aren't pscyhically linked to our kit) and to ensure that human error doesn't lead to an incident.

    I guess that some divers feel they are beyond making mistakes. Complacency sets in.... until eventually they do make a mistake and it bites them in the arse.

    I've seen divers make simular mistakes on several occasions. The worst incident I saw (in terms of potential risk) was a diver who entered the water with his air-off, his mask around his neck and his fins under his arms. He hadn't quite inflated his BCD enough (because the air was off) and he 'knew' that a 3 second squirt of his LPI would give him enough buoyancy. Giant stride entry. Sinking. Instant panic. Boatman tossed him a line and recovered him. Humiliation. Lesson learnt. (p.s. his buddy couldn't help him, as he hadn't waited and already swum off to the descent line at the front of the boat). The diver concerned was a rescue diver, with 200+ dives.

    I've also read reports of divers (including some highly experienced) who have died because of simular, very simple human errors.

    To the OP. What you heard about was a diver experiencing a reality check. That reality being:experience does not make you infalliable... and a diver is never 'beyond' the basic, core skills and drills that were taught on their entry-level scuba courses. LEarn from that divers' lesson...and be wary of complacency as your experience increases.

    I don't want you to think I am being 'preachy' about this. I certainly can't be 'holier than thou', because I've had simular wake-up calls along my diving development.

  4. #24
    Registered


    says Florida Rocks!
     

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    North Palm Beach, FL
    Dives
    1,000 - 2,499
    Blog Entries
    1
    Oh, I thought this was about the update change.

  5. #25
    Solo Diver


    would rather be diving
     

    Frosty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    902
    Dives
    100 - 199
    Photos
    3
    Hey DD--It wasn't the OP that got caught out.it was other divers on the same boat.
    Theres no such thing as strangers,Just freinds that havent met
    Everyone is my teacher.Some I seek.Some i subconsciously attract.Often I learn simply by observing others.
    Some may be unaware that im learning from them, yet I bow deeply in gratitude.

  6. #26
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    ktkt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    177
    Dives
    100 - 199
    Quote Originally Posted by DevonDiver View Post
    The worst incident I saw (in terms of potential risk) was a diver who entered the water with his air-off, his mask around his neck and his fins under his arms. He hadn't quite inflated his BCD enough (because the air was off) and he 'knew' that a 3 second squirt of his LPI would give him enough buoyancy. Giant stride entry. Sinking. Instant panic. Boatman tossed him a line and recovered him. Humiliation. Lesson learnt.
    I am a little blown away by this. I don't have all that much experience yet, but so far, all of my boat entries (both giant stride and rolling out of the inflatable) have involved:
    1) Fins on.
    2) Mask on.
    3) Reg in mouth.

    Are any of these nonstandard?

    Even if I didn't have much air in my BCD, it would take only a tiny kick to put me on the surface. I have to actually concentrate to descend the first ten feet or so, i.e. exhale fully, make sure not to kick, etc. Are people who sink much easier generally overweighted, or is there another factor at play?

    With mask on and reg in as you stand at the edge of the boat, you'll definitely know if your air is completely off. You could miss the fact that it's only open a tiny bit if you haven't checked your regs, but that's much easier to fix, since you still have air.

  7. #27
    Photographer


    Underwater nomad
     

    Kilili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    623
    Dives
    1,000 - 2,499
    It's your responsibility to check reg, air pressure, etc., before jumping in the water. Be proactive, it's your life.

    The only person that screwed up was the diver.
    Ken
    ~~~
    "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." - Johann Sebastian Bach

  8. #28
    Will be missed


    It's pronounced CARE-oh, and
    it means "Of course I
    want to!"
     

    Quero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Dives
    I just don't log dives
    Photos
    5
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkt View Post
    I am a little blown away by this. I don't have all that much experience yet, but so far, all of my boat entries (both giant stride and rolling out of the inflatable) have involved:
    1) Fins on.
    2) Mask on.
    3) Reg in mouth.

    Are any of these nonstandard?
    Nope. What is nonstandard is showing off with a "fancy" entry. I've seen people enter with the mask in their hands (their reasoning is that they will clean the baby shampoo--or whatever--off in the water before putting the mask on. I've seen people enter without their regs in their mouths (they claim it's an air-saving technique--these same people sometimes inflate their BCD orally to save tank air). I've seen people enter holding their fins rather than having them on their feet (they say it saves time on the dive platform for better "traffic flow"). But I've never seen anybody do all three of these at once! The humiliation for the diver who did this was well-earned!

    I personally enter the water with all my gear in the place it will be during the dive--fins on feet, reg in mouth, mask on face.

  9. #29
    Tech Instructor
    Go Red - Support SB!

    PADI/SSI/BSAC/ANDI/TecRec
    Tec/Advanced Sidemount,Trimix,
    Technical Wreck Instructor
     

    DevonDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Subic Bay, Philippines
    Posts
    13,432
    Dives
    5,000 - ∞
    Photos
    161
    Blog Entries
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkt View Post
    I am a little blown away by this. I don't have all that much experience yet, but so far, all of my boat entries (both giant stride and rolling out of the inflatable) have involved:
    1) Fins on.
    2) Mask on.
    3) Reg in mouth.

    Are any of these nonstandard?

    Even if I didn't have much air in my BCD, it would take only a tiny kick to put me on the surface. I have to actually concentrate to descend the first ten feet or so, i.e. exhale fully, make sure not to kick, etc. Are people who sink much easier generally overweighted, or is there another factor at play?

    With mask on and reg in as you stand at the edge of the boat, you'll definitely know if your air is completely off. You could miss the fact that it's only open a tiny bit if you haven't checked your regs, but that's much easier to fix, since you still have air.
    Yep...it's a fool-proof system, that goes a long way to keeping divers safe. It ceases to be fool-proof when it is not used (the same as buddy checks).

    Being a safe scuba diver requires some self-discipline. I think that there is actually a lot of 'unspoken' peer pressure that can lead divers to abandoning these safe practices. They associate buddy checks, and formal water entries, with being a newbie. They don't want to look like a 'novice', so they disassociate themselves from the sort of procedures taught on entry-level courses. Of course, there is also plenty of bad role-modelling from 'dive pros' that reinforces this peer pressure.

    The only reason why a diver would feel that they don't need to bother with a buddy check, or a safe water entry, is because they haven't yet experienced a dangerous incident. Not experiencing an incident has nothing to do with their skill or experience... it's just a matter of inevitability. Self-discipline to adhere to the proper skills and procedures keeps you safe when the inevitable happens. It's the mark of a competant diver, not a clueless newbie.

  10. #30
    Assimilated Medical Mod


    Currently broken
     

    TSandM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Woodinville, WA
    Posts
    34,409
    Dives
    1,000 - 2,499
    Photos
    28
    Blog Entries
    1
    It isn't necessarily unspoken pressure. I have experienced an OWSI loudly mocking me on a boat: "Same reg I used last dive? Yup! Same BC I used last dive? Yup! Good to go!" Peter had to get noisily in the face of an instructor/guide who complained, "At this rate, we're going to be doing a NIGHT DIVE . . ." because we were doing an efficient and quick buddy check -- which no one else on the boat was doing, or had done.

    Now, admittedly, if you're doing a hot drop or something and you wait until they call the gate open to begin your checks, I can see the crew being annoyed. But in all other situations, people should be PRAISED for having the diligence to go through a plan and check their gear. It certainly saves wear and tear on the dive crew doing rescues!

    There are two messages I'd like to get out to all the new divers who come onto ScubaBoard. One is not to abandon the good habits somebody tried to teach you in OW. Do your checks, plan your dive and dive your plan, and stay with your buddy. The other is to have some kind of strategy for managing your gas. Neither of those things is ubiquitous in general diving.
    "If something goes tits up, don't count on rising to the occasion. You will fall to what you have truly mastered." (PfcAJ)
    My dive journal can be read here, and a current dive blog HERE
    Okay, you've heard all our opinions. Want to know what the science is? http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/
    www.divematrix.com

Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. BC screw in CO2 canister.
    By fisherdvm in forum Basic Scuba Discussions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: April 5th, 2007, 11:08 AM
  2. what does that 5/16 hex screw do...
    By birdwrasse in forum Basic Scuba Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 7th, 2006, 01:15 AM
  3. I screw up in the water, I know, and I appreciate all the help
    By DandyDon in forum Basic Scuba Discussions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: June 24th, 2005, 11:29 AM
  4. the screw
    By Afraid_of_Fish in forum Non-Diving Related Stuff
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 5th, 2004, 01:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •