Problems with LDS. Need advice. (LONG READ)

[craracer]

About a month and a half ago I bought a brand new drysuit ($1700.00) from a local LDS.

The problems began immediately. They didn't have the inflation hose because they had sold it to another customer.

I ended up driving back and forth between home and the shop (about 60 miles) three times, and still don't have a hose. The shop loaned me one of their rental suit hoses, which I had to return after use.

When I first brought the suit home I noticed that there was a tear inside the bag for the suit. I took it back to the shop for a replacement. When I got home with the new bag, I noticed that someone had written, in Sharpie, the letter "M" on it. So, they didn't give me a new bag. It was another one of the rentals. So, one more trip back to the store. At this point, I still hadn't even dove in the suit.

When I bought the suit, I also paid for dry gloves, and a ring system to retro-fit them (made by the manufacturer for this suit). I spent hours trying to get the rings into the suit. It finally took a phone call to the manufacturer so they could walk me through it. They told me that it was "extremely difficult" to put the rings in, so I know it wasn't me being a tard. They also told me to purchase 2 additional rubber gaskets to help secure the rings. So, back to the shop I went. During the 45 minute drive to the shop (one way without traffic), I kept thinking "Why the heck didn't they come with the extra gaskets?".

There are 1/2" rubber strips that go around the neck and wrist seals of the suit. They were coming unglued. I could see that the glue holding the strips to the suit was dried out. I started thinking "How long has this suit been sitting on the shelf?" So, I went back to the store, where they told me that it was no big deal as they were "decorative". They wouldn't give me the suit cement to make the repair. I had to buy it.

The dry gloves were "On back-order", so they were kind enough to loan a used pair to me as my Advanced EANx/Deco class was in 2 days. I had to return them after my class. Out of curiosity, I called the manufacturer, who stated that they were not out of stock.

During my first of three deep/long dives, the left arm leaked a lot, but my hand was dry. During the second dive, not only did the left arm leak, but the right followed suit. Both hands were still dry. More of the same during the third and final dive.

The next day I returned the suit to the shop and explained all of the problems I had been having. I also told them that, under no circumstances did I want this suit back. I want a new one. They apologized and assured me that they would take care of it.

It's been a month and 3 days since I returned the suit to them. I've called them twice to request that they call the manufacturer for an ETA. Twice they've told me that they would, and would call me back. I have yet to hear from them. The shop told me that it could take up to two months to get a replacement because "They may need to make one if they don't have it in stock". This is an off-the-rack suit with no modifications. Again, I called the manufacturer and they told me that, at most, it would take 2 weeks (but typically one week) to ship a suit to a shop.

I only have the manual, CD, and hood for the suit. The rest is God knows where.

They told me that I could use one of their rental suits whenever I want. However, what do I do if it's rented out? It also requires me to drive 45 minutes, one way, to get it (then I have to return it).

Needless to say, I'm pretty nervous. The last LDS punked me when they sold me a fill card, and then promptly went out of business the following day (the owner sold me the card).

If you were me, what would you do?

 

[B Lo]

This is not intended to constitute legal advice. A demand letter sent certified with return receipt might be a good start. Whether or not they respond, you will have established a paper trail.

 

[*dave*]

It seems you've stated your case pretty well here. I'd print out your post and hand it to the shop owner and ask him what he'd do if he were you.... On the other hand, if you have other options, I'd salvage what I could with the current LDS and run like hell.

 

[Dragon Down]

If you used a credit card, file a charge back.

 

[WeldonDowd]

If you used a credit card, file a charge back.

The sooner the better!

 

[craracer]

B LO: Good idea. Both the manager and the owner have told me they would call the manufacturer. If they have, they didn't tell me about it.

*Dave*: I was thinking about going down there tomorrow for a little face-to-face discussion. I hate to be confrontational, but it's getting to the point at which I may be forced to do so.

Dragon Down: Funny you should say this as I tried calling my credit card company tonight. Unfortunately, it was beyond business hours, so I'll call in the morning.

For the most part, they've destroyed my confidence in their business model. My first clue should have been when I bought a Luxfor 40cf from them. They had to order it (no big deal), but it took several weeks to get. I received a Catalina, not the Luxfor I ordered. I could have had them send it back, but I needed it, and couldn't wait several more weeks.

I specifically indicated that the tank was to be 02 cleaned because I would be filling it with 100%. They said "No problem".

They do not do 100% fills, so I had to take it to another LDS, who wouldn't fill it because it did not have the 02 cleaned certification on it. I had to pay the shop to 02 clean it (despite it being a new tank). I should have checked the stickers when I picked the tank up. Lesson learned.

 

[CamG]

Greetings craracer I wish I had never heard of this type of scene but they are out there!
First things first get all of your paper work in order, receipts, fuel cost for repeat trips,
documented phone conversations "LDS and Manufacturer", copy of your Scuba Board post. When you roll into that LDS again have a file of information!
List dates and amounts of money that were involved to the penny! Be very respectful but very direct and unwavering!
Take every piece of gear pertaining to the dry suit, I mean take it all!
Make certain that the owner and manager are present and if possible take a friend who has been briefed with a tape recorder to tape the conversation. It is my practice to aways explain to the people involved the tape recorder is in the event this ends up in court. If they refuse to allow the recording then I simply say, I want a full refund now and I will walk away and never come back!

I have never gotten all the way through this as it usually ends in a refund far before it gets dicy. But what I have learned about customer service in both my occupation and LDS's you do not want the afore person in court! Most people can be manipulated but some cannot! It sounds as though they have taken you for one of those.
It is time to tell them different!

Get your full refund, eat the fuel back and forth and move on to else where!
Check references here on Scuba Board and with other local divers about LDS's before you buy your next DS.
I have unfortunately witnessed this type of behavior before before in other businesses as well. It is a nightmare and GET YOUR MONEY A.S.A.P.!
I may seem harsh but in my experience it is the beginning of the end for a business to treat customers like this. It is not acceptable nor should it be tolerated!

Good luck and please keep us posted. I appreciate your keep from naming names and manufacturers. It is obvious that you want to take the high road so give them an opportunity to do like wise. If they don't I would follow the coarse of action I explained. It will cost you to take them to court but when you enter into a fight there are no winners. It will cost more than you have invested but usually it settles far before getting to that point.

CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!

 

[craracer]

I called both my credit card company, and the suit manufacturer.

The credit card company is willing/able to do a charge-back because it's a relatively large amount of money.

I explained my problem to the manufacturer, and apologized for dragging them into this. I asked that they simply confirm that either my "old" suit had been sent to them, or that they had sent a new suit to the shop.

The representative said that they would "...look into it, and call [me] back later today. I will need to also call the LDS because I don't want to stick my foot into my mouth".

So, here I sit. I can't get answers from anyone.

I'm going to the LDS for some more face-to-face before I call my credit card company.

 

[craracer]

Just got back from the LDS. I informed the manager that I was disappointed, and have lost my confidence in their business during the course of this, and previous issues. I told them that I was dumbfounded that neither the owner or [the manager] had called the manufacturer for an ETA.

The manager said that they had been on vacation for the last 10 days (I was thinking "Why didn't you delegate this issue to the person you left in charge, or take care of it before you left?).

So, the manager called the manufacturer while I was there. I am being told that the suit was shipped FedEx, and is scheduled to arrive at the LDS on Friday. This suit is in fact a brand new one.

However, the hood and bag are on back order. The manufacturer was to install the quick-detach glove rings. Apparently, this was not done. I insisted that the LDS install the rings on Friday.

I inquired about the absent dry gloves and inflation hose. The suit is coming with the inflation hose, but the gloves were never ordered back when I made the original purchase. The manager stated that they would have them shipped overnight so they would arrive by Friday's pickup.

One interesting thing the manager said while on the phone was that "The original suit he received was 6 or 7 years old". She went on to say that they were going to use the suit in the rental fleet.

I'm going to request that the LDS mail me the missing items. I've spent a lot of time, and gas money traveling back and forth.

I hope that this will be resolved quickly. It appears that I repeatedly have issues with dive shops. I find it hard to listen to them constantly complain that customers are buying products online.

They really need to take a step back and objectively look at their own business practices before they start pointing fingers.

 

[CamG]

Greetings craracer and I want to let you know that not all dive shop's customer service is like you have experienced. I have had great experiences and some not so great.
It has a large bearing on future business I under take with them.
I can drive two hours away to the LDS that got me started diving and I have full faith that all will be well. I have spent $$$$ with them and never been disappointed not once.
One of the more local shops I have experienced problems with their service. I will not name names or what it was, but I will no longer use or recommend them to anyone.
It is unfortunate that all LDS's do not follow a good customer service model but lets face it not all customers are respectful and gracious.
I deel with both spectrums of customers and have come to understand that direct upfront communication is best and it is not rude to ask for clarification on the facts of a complaint. You win some loose some but my goal is to always treat every customer with respect and kindness. A kind word does turn wrath away!
When making them happy is our goal and they know it is genuine it is easy to earn customer respect and loyalty even when all is not well with products.
Why would I drive 2 hours away? Because I know that whatever issue comes up will be taken care of correctly and in a timely manor.
I am not sure where you are located but this shop does have a on-line shop that I would be willing to introduce to you if you wish. Just PM me and I will see that you have the information. I can put you in contact with the shop owner as well if you desire it. It is located in IN so I am not sure if this helps or not but they can ship via the on-line shop. Good luck and hope all goes well.

CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!