Scubapro 109 regulator bad signs and servicing pointers

[ericpitar]

Hello all,

I've just acquired a Scubapro r109.
1)What things about it should I look for to determine if it's a well-maintained or atleast non-abused item?
2)When I do have it serviced, what are the important points to remember that they need to do to make sure it's done correctly? (i.e. any quirks involved in servicing that a technician with minimal experience may overlook?)
3)Is servicing an r109 easy enough for a scubapro technician (with minimal to no experience in the r109) to do properly?

Thanks in advance!

 

[herman]

Welcome to the board.
I just looked at my 109 information, I am assuming your refering to the second stage only, the first can be almost any other model. It is a simple poppet/lever design and one of the more simple designs to repair and adjust. If your reg tech has trouble repairing a 109, take your reg and run like crazy to another tech.

As for after service inspection, the normal things like is it clean (or better yet, cleaner than I took it in), does it free flow, does it breath like it should and are all the connections snug would be the things to look for.

The 109 and likely the MK2 first stage it's hooked to are solid but simple first and second stages. Easy to service and reliable to use.

It helps the other board members a lot if you add some information to your profile. It's easier to answer questions based on your experience and location if we have some idea as to what your training, experience level and location are. It's hard to answer post like "where is a good shop" or "anyone want to go dive this weekend" if we have no idea where in the world you are. It's the norm on this board to get answers to your question from 4 or 5 countries.
Again, welcome to the board.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The R109 has been around since the late 1960's.

There have been four different R109 poppets used and you could find any of the four depending on when it was last serviced.

The earliest version is problematic as it was much shorter and used a plastic ball for a spring pad rather than a flat pad. If that one is present you'll need a new spring pad.

The two earliest poppets also used a lever with larger tabs and if you have that lever, you need a new one.

Many R109 "Adjustable" second stages have also been upgraded to R156 "Balanced Adjustable" status as the regs are identical other than the unbalanced versus balanced poppet assemblies. So your R109 may not be a 109 at all and you can't tell until you remove the poppet. There have been 2 variants of the balanced poppet since it;s introduction in the mid 80's - a two piece blue plastic and metal stem poppet and the current one piece plastic S-wing poppet.

Over the years the R109/R156 used 3 different rubber purge covers - an early one with a rounded lip, a later one with a higher profile pointed lip and the last one with a flat lip and rectangualar holes. All are interchangeable and if replaced it is usually because of dry rot on the edges where it clamps betwene the case and metal purge cover.

The earliest R109's used a black rubber diaphragm but most will have been upgraded to a silicone diaphragm in either tan, pale blue or bright blue silicone.

The R109/R156 has also may have one of 4 four different adjustment knobs. The first two are shiny chrome and knurled and differ internally as the early one has a ful diamaeter stem while the later one has the portion between threads and o-ring turned down to reduce weight. The next wersion used a splined knob like the early G250 and the final version is similar in style but with a plastic knob on the end of the metal shaft as used on the later G250.

The later R156 had a bead blasted matte chrome finish as opposed to a shiny chrome finsish and that is a dead give away that it is (or was) a R156.

Three orifices may also be found - the early chrome plated brass orifice, the later brass orifice and the current plastic orifice (can you spot the trend in reduced production costs).

If the reg still has the screen printed lettering on the cover it is almost certainly in excellent shape as that was the first thing to wear on the R109/R156. With the exception of major dents or major corrosion its almost impossible to find an R109 that cannot be rebuilt.

The R109 was most commonly sold with the balanced Mk 5 or Mk 10 first stages although it was also sold with the Mk 7 audio first stage. It may be found on a Mk 2 or Mk 3 first stage but that would be uncommon as those were packaged with the unbalanced and non adjustable R108 second stage.

 

[halocline]

Another encyclopedic post....DA, you really should write a book someday, or at least consider a compilation of many of these posts.

A couple of quick questions; how do you know if you have the old lever, does the current s-wing poppet (G250) not fit on it? Is it worth getting a newer, thinner diaphragm? I have an "almost white" fairly thick silicone one with a metal pad for the lever on one I recently bought. IOW, does the G250 diaphragm offer any improved response?

Regarding the reg in this thread, the only real issue with abuse (other than obvious damage) would be corrosion on the internal metal parts, like if it was used in salt water, not rinsed, and put away for a decade or two. The tech will tell you all about it I'm sure. You also may have to scramble for some soft parts; especially the exhaust tee, and I bet the rubber purge cover is tough to find if needed. You can find these parts, but the LDS may tell you otherwise while handing you the "latest and greatest" new reg.

The easiest and probably best thing for the tech to do in terms of rebuild would be to install the current s-wing poppet, a G250 spring, and then you basically have a G250 in a metal case. Subsequent annual service would just include the G250 kit, which is widely available.

There's a regular on this forum (AWAP) who has a good collection of these regs, a couple of which have almost no chrome left on them. They still work fine, and have the added advantage of horrifying gear geeks who can't seem to understand why anyone would "trust their life" to anything less than a $1000 titanium reg.

 

[Couv]

Hello Ericpitar,

Welcome to ScubaBoard. Herman and DA are just trying to be nice. The truth about that 109 is that it is a hazard to you and the environment. Send it to me and I will see that it is disposed of properly at no charge to you. ;-)

....no? Well, OK...unless you see a very significant amount of corrosion or dents in the body, you a nice find there. In addition to what Herman and DA said, if the 109 has not been upgraded, I think it is usually worth the $ to have it upgraded to a Balanced Adjustable (156) one of the best breathing, and trouble free second stages ever built.

c

edit: and what Matt said too....fast typer that he is.

 

[redacted]

Hello Ericpitar,


....no? Well, OK...unless you see a very significant amount of corrosion or dents in the body, you a nice find there. In addition to what Herman and DA said, if the 109 has not been upgraded, I think it is usually worth the $ to have it upgraded to a Balanced Adjustable (156) one of the best breathing, and trouble free second stages ever built.

c

edit: and what Matt said too....fast typer that he is.

Undented chrome finish is really overrated. IMHO, they are a lot like an old pick-up truck. Scratches, worn finish, and dents in the right places may actually improve performance. I bought some just because they were ugly and cheap and they all work after a good bath. I agree that the 156 may perform a little better than the 109, but they just don't get much simpler than the 109 from a design and maintenance standpoint. I usually have a 156 in my mouth and a 109 around my neck. The 109 seems to be a little less sensitive to surge and current conditions and the LP seat is a generic hockey puck design that can be obtained from various sources, unlike the scubapro specific balanced poppet seat.

 

[Luis H]

I see you already get responses from "all the usual suspects".

I agree with all of them. Nice write up DA.

INHO that is one of the all times best second stages ever.

 

[halocline]

INHO that is one of the all times best second stages ever.

I thought so too until I bought a D300, now it's my favorite.

 

[redacted]

I thought so too until I bought a D300, now it's my favorite.

Breathes fairly well. Doesn't drive nails worth a damn.

 

[divinginn]

I showed a nube last week what a proper reg was,early mk5 with the 109 second.It helped me keep up with him at vortex springs,I would turn to keep a eye on him and there would be 4 or 5 other divers clustered together but only one with a shiny chrome second stage in his mouth.