Oxycheq Mach V vs. DSS ?

[Patrick]

These wings are pretty tough and unless you're squeezing through some tight sharp metal holes in wrecks, playing darts underwater or re-enacting scenes from James Bond movies, chances of a bladder failure are pretty slim. At least on your wing...

Bill Hogarth Main (of Hogarthian fame) has been diving the 50# Razor (first 360 loop wing made specifically for doubles) wing (bladderless) for over two years and 8 months. As he told me, he has crawled into quite a few tight places. In the entire time, he has yet to hole that wing.

Knowing Bill's diving habits, it would not shock me if he has over 400 cave dives on that wing.

That said, he just upgraded to the Vertex 55# Extreme. We both imagine that he will never need another wing.

Best regards,

Patrick
OxyCheq
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http://oxycheq,com

 

[dcs917]

I have to say that the OxyChec 30# wing has been very satisfactory. Low profile, low drag, and high performance. See my blog for a more complete review.

Dive safe.

 

[divad]

The last round of Mach Vs that came to the shop had black lettering in place of the usual yellow. I'm not sure if it is a permanent change, an option, or just a run of "stealth" models. . .

What shop? Bermuda Triangle? When did you start selling Oxycheq?

 

[TSandM]

Since I've been quoted a number of times in this thread, let me say a couple of things . . . One, field repairs are just that; afterwards, the bladder should be replaced. Patches are likely to fail over time (BTDT).

Second, my pinch flat was in an older wing, and the bladder that replaced the damaged one is MUCH thicker material, which is what I think DSS is using as standard now. I'm sure you COULD put a hole in the new stuff, but it would sure be a lot harder.

Between me and my husband, we have five wings and about 700 dives, and one pinch flat.

(But I do carry an inner tube patch kit in my save-a-dive kit -- works for wings, and for latex seals, too )

 

[divad]

(But I do carry an inner tube patch kit in my save-a-dive kit -- works for wings, and for latex seals, too )

Why do you carry something you've intimated isn't necessary?

 

[Patrick]

Since I've been quoted a number of times in this thread, let me say a couple of things . . . One, field repairs are just that; afterwards, the bladder should be replaced. Patches are likely to fail over time (BTDT).

In the past, when all mfgs made wings and bcs with bladders, it was not uncommon for the owner to patch a bladder. It is not difficult, and if done correctly it will last for the life of the wing. I know people that have patched holes with duct tape and that held for years. So, using the proper materials and glue will certainly last longer than that.

I would consider duct tape as a field repair. I would not consider using the proper materials as a field repair. If you were using proper materials, the only difference between the end user and the mfgs repair would be the location (your garage or the mfg's facility).

I do not know anyone that has thrown away a waterbed because they had to patch a hole in it and since patch kits are sold for waterbeds, I doubt anyone is sending them back to the mfg. The same thing was done with bicycle tires.

There is also a product being sold on the market now that has adhesive on one side (like a bandaid) and you tape it on the hole. I cannot think of the mfg, but you can find the same material at WalMart in the camping section.

So, if anyone is comfortable putting a bandaid on a cut, you should be able to patch a bladder.

If you have an inner bladder, in order to patch it, you must have access to the bladder. Depending on the wing and where the hole is, you might need a BC tool to remove the bladder from the shell. With a 360 loop wing and zipper, you can see the majority of the bladder without taking the bladder and the shell apart.

In summary, if done properly (and it is not hard to do), you will not need to replace the bladder with a new bladder because you put a pin hole in it and if the wing is 360 loop with a 360 zipper, you will not be sending it back to us for repairs.

Early next year we will make a video or slide presentation to show everyone just how easy it is to patch a bladder.

Best regards,

Patrick
OxyCheq
---
http://oxycheq.com

 

[Patrick]

Second, my pinch flat was in an older wing, and the bladder that replaced the damaged one is MUCH thicker material, which is what I think DSS is using as standard now. I'm sure you COULD put a hole in the new stuff, but it would sure be a lot harder.

I believe DSS is using black, 22 mil urethane. OxyCheq uses clear, 25 mil so you can inspect the bladder for crud (salt, organisms).

Between me and my husband, we have five wings and about 700 dives, and one pinch flat.

Another way one might look at that is a pinch hole every 140 dives. 700/5 = 140.

Our inner bladders are over 10% thicker than what you are now diving. And, all of our outer shells (other than the Extreme) have five ounces of urethane under the outer shell.

Even though our wings are built quite well, I do expect that sooner or later someone will put a hole in one. I plan on it and that is exactly why we put zippers on all of our wings that have internal bladders.

Best regards,

Patrick
OxyCheq
---
http://oxycheq.com

Best regards,

Patrick

 

[TSandM]

Sorry, disagree with the math. We haven't had one pinch flat PER wing, just one pinch flat in 700 dives.

We had a hole in a wing that was patched with a urethane patch. (This was not a pinch flat, but another issue which was entirely not the fault of the wing.) The urethane patch eventually came off. It wasn't a big deal, as the hole was small, but we did replace the bladder after that. (This wing, BTW, was NEITHER of the brands being discussed.)

I carry the patch kit more for seals than for wing holes, evad. I have had NUMEROUS issues with seals.

 

[Patrick]

Sorry, disagree with the math. We haven't had one pinch flat PER wing, just one pinch flat in 700 dives.

We had a hole in a wing that was patched with a urethane patch. (This was not a pinch flat, but another issue which was entirely not the fault of the wing.) The urethane patch eventually came off. It wasn't a big deal, as the hole was small, but we did replace the bladder after that. (This wing, BTW, was NEITHER of the brands being discussed.)

I carry the patch kit more for seals than for wing holes, evad. I have had NUMEROUS issues with seals.

If each wing had approximately 140 dives, one of the five wings would have a hole.

Before I made wings, I had patches on another mfgs wings for over three years without falling off. If done properly, they will hold for a long time. I will find the product that I mentioned previoulsy, it is very easy to use and glue is not needed.

Not sure how anyone would think you were referring to any wing other than a DSS.

my pinch flat was in an older wing, and the bladder that replaced the damaged one is MUCH thicker material, which is what I think DSS is using as standard now..

To me, that suggests that you had an older DSS wing, patched the hole and then had a new bladder put it.


Best regards,

Patrick
OxyCheq
---
http://oxycheq.com

 

[halocline]

Another way one might look at that is a pinch hole every 140 dives. 700/5 = 140.

Ummm, only one of the 5 wings got a hole in 140 dives, so that does not mean 1 hole/140 dives, it means statistically a 20% chance of a hole in 140 dives, or (statistically) 1 hole in 700 dives.

Somehow I think if she were diving an oxycheq wing, you would not have done the math this way! Both you guys build great products; it's too bad you're always at each other's throats. Of course, with a thread titled "DSS VS Oxycheq" I guess I should expect some sparring.