DUI 400g - Still King of the Hill?

[PerroneFord]

It's been some years since GI3 proclaimed the Weezle crap, and the DUI 400g as the clear choice for WKPP (and by association DIR) diving. I am curious to know if people still feel this is the case.

In looking at things, it appears that the older DUI suits were using Thinsulate Type C. It appears they are now using Thinsulate Type B. Apparently Type B is less compressible. I also noticed that companies like Santi, and Viking also use this type of Thinsulate. Are those suits considered interchangeable with the DUI?

There are a lot of new players on the market in cold water undergarments.

Pinnacle using a combo of Thinsulate, Merino, and Fleece.

Santi using things similar to DUI

Weezle (the compressibility seems concerning, but I tried the Extreme and was warm as heck in it with the same amount of squeeze I use on my fleece.)

Viking has been around a good while using Thinsulate

Fourth Element, though I think you'd have to layer it to get the same protection

Whites has some offerings but I don't know them all that well

Dive Rite and others using a fill that seems fairly compressible, so not sure how well they work.


I'll be attending the DUI dog days this weekend and will get to try a number of things, but I was curious where the DIR community is on this topic. Has there been enough time and innovation to say that the DUI 400g is no longer the only game in town?

 

[Mo2vation]

got the legs and sleeves tapered a bit. Made a huge difference.

Think of the stuff as a non-stretchy blanket - do NOT pull hard to get it on or off, or else you'll pull it apart. I was stunned when we opened it up to taper it that there were a few "holes" in the insulation where I'd obviously yanked it on or off.

Dived it to 44 degrees and never had an issue.

I love the stuff.


---
Ken

 

[PerroneFord]

I don't believe I'll be needing any tapering!

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Dunno about DUI, but I bought a Diving Concepts stretch thinsulate one piece with vest.

It sucks Pelican wankie.

I'll stick with my Weezle Extreme+

YMMV.

 

[nadwidny]

If DUI changed the type of Thinsulate in its' 400 then I suppose any "official" DIR endorsements are out the window.

In my experience the original DUI400 and Weezle Extreme+ work pretty much the same (wet or dry) however the Weezle does require more gas in the suit to get the loft working. A shrink wrapped Weezle is next to useless. This seems counter-intuitive that it should work wet but without sticking a thermometer up my @zz I've found this to be so.

DC Concepts stretch...fine for warm water weenies who think they dive in cold. I use mine in Mexico. I use their vest under my Weezles as a supplement for cold water but a fleece works just as well.

Fourth Element-Had a buddy dive them recently in the relatively warm waters of the St. Lawrence. From his review I understood them to rank right up there with filling your suit with Helium for insulating value.

Don't know about the rest since they always sucked before and I see no reason why they should stop now.

 

[ppo2_diver]

Weezle (the compressibility seems concerning, but I tried the Extreme and was warm as heck in it with the same amount of squeeze I use on my fleece.)

This is how I wear my Weezle.

however the Weezle does require more gas in the suit to get the loft working. A shrink wrapped Weezle is next to useless. This seems counter-intuitive that it should work wet but without sticking a thermometer up my @zz I've found this to be so.

This is really based on a person's tolerance to cold. I wear my Weezle pretty paper thin and I'm still warm as heck, even in 35F water. Some people may need more air to keep warm. I found that when I dove the 400g, I had to use more air in the suit just to keep the squeeze off, than I did for the Weezle.

Type of undergarment is a personal choice and as long as it works with minimal gas in the suit and can keep you warm when flooded, then why isn't DIR?

 

[coldsmoke]

I don't know too much about undergarments, but I have been thinking about this for a while and when I saw this this thread I thought I'd bring it up.

Obviously the big thing with warmth is the materials ability to retain it's insulative properties while wet. All dry suits get wet due to condensation at least and often enough will have a small annoying leak somewhere. Why couldn't the undergarment be some sort of insulation - like thinsulate- with a Gortex shell. It could even have a water resistant zipper - like on backpacks. I don't know if you would need to worry about adding some sort of water resistant wrist and ankle seals but you could easily enough. Obviously the undergarment wouldn't be "water-proof" as in a dry suit, but minor floods and condensation would be prevented from soaking the insulation. As well the gortex is suppose to breath so perhaps body moisture would be pushed away and stored between the gortex layer and the shell of the suit. Surely you could taylor them well enough that the lack of strech that the gortex has wouldn't be too much of a problem - but I don't know.

Is there anything out there like this? Would there be the problems with doing something like this?

Hunter

 

[Jason B]

Perrone, since you live in Florida and are not doing 14hrs cave dives like the WKPP, I'd think a 400gram thinsulate would be way overkill for your (local) needs.

A 150-300g fleece does me great on cave dives up to 2 hr in length. In 72 degree water, a flood is even a non issue on these types of dives. On occasion when I have had a suit flood, I never known it until I got out of the water.

 

[piikki]

Has there been any reports about the 4th Element SubZero stuff yet?

 

[PerroneFord]

Perrone, since you live in Florida and are not doing 14hrs cave dives like the WKPP, I'd think a 400gram thinsulate would be way overkill for your (local) needs.

A 150-300g fleece does me great on cave dives up to 2 hr in length. In 72 degree water, a flood is even a non issue on these types of dives. On occasion when I have had a suit flood, I never known it until I got out of the water.

I have two undergarments that are more than sufficient for local diving. I'm planning a trip to the Great Lakes next spring, and am gathering info.

-P