Does this make sense to any of you?

[Thalassamania]

...

I don't even see why the topic of growth plates in kids came up in the first place. Damage to growth plates can happen at any time since again, kids tend to be adept at breaking bones, and breaking any bone at either end of it can risk damage to the growth plates. The issue here is the fact that the kids could have had a runaway descent and met a very horrible death at 1,000+ ft. Not exactly the way anyone wants to go, and a fate that no kid should have to endure.

The UHMS recommends that children only make shallow dives because it is felt that there is a significant potential for damage to the growth plates as a result of "silent" bubbles.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I keep my own children and grandchildren on shallow, benign profiles. For interest, challenge and continued education, I involve them in critter observation and identification, underwater photography, exploration of shallow wreck sites, navigation, low visibility, maneuvering in silty sites without mucking it up, cavern certification, etc.
They haven't got time to go deep - too busy with all that interesting stuff in the shallows.
I don't know that deeper diving is hazardous to youngsters' normal growth and development... but there's an impressive pile of impressive folks with impressive acronyms after their names that tell me that there's enough risk to keep the kids shallow, and I can keep 'em occupied without going deep.
When I toss all that up in the air, it lands on the side of remaining within the 40' 'til 12 and 60' 'til 15 guidelines.
If you want to take your kids deeper, that's your call. My advice is to remain within the major agencies' guidelines.
Rick

 

[Scubakevdm]

Rules are rules, and by the way... that most dangerous last 15 feet is alot more dangerous if you're moving through it after something went wrong at 96'. I wonder how the parents would feel about the dives if they could read this thread. I, for one, would be punching mad if I found out that some instructor (who I do not automatically consider to be an expert diver) took my son on a dive like that. Also speaking to the instructor's ability and judgement.... the fact that this dive was conducted sort of paints him as a boneheaded yahoo in my eyes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

From the OP these are certified divers trained to share air! Not a Discovery dive! What if's can be played all day! What if a plane landing at a local air field drops blue ice on one of them killing him instantly? Now that's bad for your growth plates and something a good instructor wouldn't have seen coming!

I can only speak from my personal experiences ... as an instructor who works regularly with uncertified students and newly certified divers. Drawing from that experience ... which includes seeing certified divers with very little experience (and very inadequate training) reacting in some ways that "normal" people would never anticipate ... I would say that it's quite likely that if something went wrong that interfered with this young person's ability to take the next breath, their reaction would instinctively be to bolt for the surface.

That's a response that's hard-wired into all of us ... and every new diver is susceptible to it to one degree or another. Fortunately, the human brain is adaptable ... which is why I insist on some in-water time to get comfortable, adapt to an environment we were not designed for, and practice your in-water skills before taking a new diver deep.

Given your strong opinions, Papa Bear, I'd like to ask ... are you an instructor? How much experience do you have working with new divers? Have you ever had to deal with a new diver who experienced a failure underwater that caused them to attempt bolting to the surface?

My experience is that with new divers, when something goes wrong underwater ... even something as simple as a leaking mask skirt ... their instincts kick in before their training does ... and the most likely reaction is to get to the surface as quickly as possible to "fix" it. And the deeper you are when that happens, the higher the probability that you'll damage yourself by the time you reach the surface.

I simply won't expose my students to that sort of risk until I feel they're ready ... through exposure and practice ... to handle potential failures underwater ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mello-yellow]

On a related note... 5 or 6 years ago some dive shop around here (New England) conducted dry suit class in February, from a boat, at 100'. Does this raise flags? 38 degree water and being unused to drysuit buoyancy is stressful enough -- adding 100' depth is just asking for trouble.

Well, here is what happened. Besides the drysuit class, the boat had one passenger. He was diving without a buddy and without backup air (also not the sharpest person, IMO). When his regulator free-flowed at the bottom, he tried to take the octopus from one of drysuit students. The student, already on the edge, backed away and headed for the surface. One of the instructors followed him, as he was supposed to. At the surface, the student told the instructor that someone at the bottom seems to be having difficulties. The instructor went back down, but by the time he found the "odd passenger", he was dead.

Nobody in the drysuit class got hurt, but had they dived from shore (like mine did), the boat would have taken more experienced passengers on that day, or not gone at all. Either way, the free-flow diver might have lived.

 

[mello-yellow]

I keep my own children and grandchildren on shallow, benign profiles.

Your children already have children of their own, and you still keep them on shallow, benign profiles?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Your children already have children of their own, and you still keep them on shallow, benign profiles?

Well, no... sometimes I forget they've grown up and with the baby turning 20 this year, I guess it only applies to grandchildren now... and some nieces & nephews still.
Rick

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

From the OP these are certified divers trained to share air! Not a Discovery dive! What if's can be played all day! What if a plane landing at a local air field drops blue ice on one of them killing him instantly? Now that's bad for your growth plates and something a good instructor wouldn't have seen coming!

Actually, if you pay attention when you read the article it states that the 96-foot dive was their fourth dive of the class (one on day one, two on day two, and this was the first dive of three on day three). Even by PADI's standards ... which are lower than most other agencies with respect to the number of dives required for certification ... they need four dives to become certified. So if the article is accurate, these were not yet certified divers.

Well, that's the problem. Kids don't know any better as in they think they're invincible so harm can never come to them. That's all fine and dandy when the kid is riding a bike, playing football, etc. where the worst injury that usually happens (barring a freak accident) is a broken bone. The worst injury that usually happens in diving is a lot more permanent than a broken bone.

I don't even see why the topic of growth plates in kids came up in the first place. Damage to growth plates can happen at any time since again, kids tend to be adept at breaking bones, and breaking any bone at either end of it can risk damage to the growth plates. The issue here is the fact that the kids could have had a runaway descent and met a very horrible death at 1,000+ ft. Not exactly the way anyone wants to go, and a fate that no kid should have to endure.

As you can see from my previous posts, I would be far more concerned about an accidental ascent than an accidental descent.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Walter]

Actually, if you pay attention when you read the article it states that the 96-foot dive was their fourth dive of the class (one on day one, two on day two, and this was the first dive of three on day three).

I'm not so sure. Reading the article, I can tell where they did dive on the 25 ft deep reef. The article never says they only made one dive.

After only one morning they hit the ocean. Later that day, we boarded one of the smaller dive boats and went just offshore a ways to a gorgeous reef in relatively shallow water (25 feet). As we approached the site, Adam, 13, grinned and said, "I can't believe I'm really gonna do this."

Do it, he did. Adam and his sister, Natalie, each took their "giant stride" off the boat into the water. Mark followed and took them into their new world - with us parents trailing unobtrusively behind, both getting the vicarious buzz of a lifetime. Major thrill. Both kids positively beamed as they climbed up on board after the first day: "That was SO cool!" And then: "Did you see that lobster?" "Did you see that parrotfish?"

We went deeper the next day, with two dives at the 50- to 60-foot level. During each descent, Mark would take the kids off to the side and work on underwater skills. That's another hoot: watching your kids get focused instruction with compasses, air hoses and gauges on the sea floor as snapper, triggerfish and grunts glide by.

The last day of diving was a three-tank "safari" dive, an all-day affair that had us starting with a wall dive. We motored out to a storied Cayman site called Babylon, known for its amazing arches and swim-throughs. Mark led us all around the reef to the wall and down to 96 feet.

 

[sweatfrog]

Even by PADI's standards ... which are lower than most other agencies with respect to the number of dives required for certification ... they need four dives to become certified..

Now that's hilarious. Especially when it's coming from an SDI Instructor.

As you can see from my previous posts, I would be far more concerned about an accidental ascent than an accidental descent.

There are only two places most divers (especially new one's) solve problems. On the surface and on the bottom. Trying to regain composure on a wall is a tad bit stressful for new divers. If you have zero life's experience, any situation at depth has a great potential of ending up poorly.

Everything is much more colorful when you're shallow and there is a lot more reef life. Not only that, but your air will last longer. If you want to dive deep, go for it as an adult. Kids don't take that option. They will go where their parents go, because they trust them to keep them out of trouble.:no