Does this make sense to any of you?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Where are the depth police when you need them? We need to talk about why? The volume change is minimal and the only counter indicator would be narcoses, I think those that protest have no good reason to complain except it an "How dare you" reaction!

I disagree ... actually, narcosis isn't the only counter indicator. Personally, as an instructor, I will not take someone that inexperienced that deep no matter what their age. Everyone's different, of course, but we're all hard-wired for certain survival instincts. Let's say for some reason this kid would've gasped a bit of water down his lungs ... say something simple like a split in the mouthpiece that let a little water in. What's the most likely reaction? I think a sudden bolt for the surface would be a pretty high probability .... he hasn't been in the water long enough yet for his brain to kick in and remind him that it's a problem that's best fixed underwater. Now, at 25 or 30 feet the risk of injury is still pretty significant ... not not nearly as much as from nearly 100 feet.

Sure, everything's cool as long as nothing goes wrong. But things DO sometimes go wrong underwater, and ... again, as an instructor ... I'm not going to put my students at that kind of risk. My own liability notwithstanding, it sets a bad example. These students are trusting the instructor to "take care of them" ... I seriously doubt that kid understood enough about the risks of deep diving to have anticipated and planned for anything that might not have gone just exactly right. I'd be hard put to believe he'd have been able to handle even the simplest issue without some kind of a struggle ... and 100 feet under the surface just isn't the place you want your students to be struggling.

Diving's all about risk management ... you shouldn't just assume that everything's always going to go just the way you want it to. Until a student can show me an adequate grasp of what that means, I ain't taking them that deep ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[S4L]

I mainly lurk... but I can't help chime in here.

Please show me a report or any studies showing damage to a child's growth plates from diving to a depth of 100'. Your child will do more damage to their growth plates strength training for football...

Each child is an individual - barring your ADD's and ADHD's, chances are that child will pick up scuba diving better than most adults.

How many here that have posted currently have a 13 year old? They aren't completely stupid and naive at that age. I'm sure they can grasp the risks, but you run into the "that won't happen to me" mentality.

If your going to panic and bolt to the surface, you will do so at the age of 13 as you would at 18, or 30. I dare say after OW instruction with 2 students, you would have some idea as to the comfort in the water of those 2 divers, but I'll leave that to the instructors.

 

[Thalassamania]

I mainly lurk... but I can't help chime in here.

Please show me a report or any studies showing damage to a child's growth plates from diving to a depth of 100'. Your child will do more damage to their growth plates strength training for football...

That is the primary reason for the UHMS recommendations, go look in the Rubicon archives if you want more.

If your going to panic and bolt to the surface, you will do so at the age of 13 as you would at 18, or 30. I dare say after OW instruction with 2 students, you would have some idea as to the comfort in the water of those 2 divers, but I'll leave that to the instructors.

In my experience adults are much more likely to be a bit squirrelly.

 

[Papa_Bear]

I disagree ... actually, narcosis isn't the only counter indicator. Personally, as an instructor, I will not take someone that inexperienced that deep no matter what their age. Everyone's different, of course, but we're all hard-wired for certain survival instincts. Let's say for some reason this kid would've gasped a bit of water down his lungs ... say something simple like a split in the mouthpiece that let a little water in. What's the most likely reaction? I think a sudden bolt for the surface would be a pretty high probability .... he hasn't been in the water long enough yet for his brain to kick in and remind him that it's a problem that's best fixed underwater. Now, at 25 or 30 feet the risk of injury is still pretty significant ... not not nearly as much as from nearly 100 feet.

Sure, everything's cool as long as nothing goes wrong. But things DO sometimes go wrong underwater, and ... again, as an instructor ... I'm not going to put my students at that kind of risk. My own liability notwithstanding, it sets a bad example. These students are trusting the instructor to "take care of them" ... I seriously doubt that kid understood enough about the risks of deep diving to have anticipated and planned for anything that might not have gone just exactly right. I'd be hard put to believe he'd have been able to handle even the simplest issue without some kind of a struggle ... and 100 feet under the surface just isn't the place you want your students to be struggling.

Diving's all about risk management ... you shouldn't just assume that everything's always going to go just the way you want it to. Until a student can show me an adequate grasp of what that means, I ain't taking them that deep ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

From the OP these are certified divers trained to share air! Not a Discovery dive! What if's can be played all day! What if a plane landing at a local air field drops blue ice on one of them killing him instantly? Now that's bad for your growth plates and something a good instructor wouldn't have seen coming!

 

[Thalassamania]

From the OP these are certified divers trained to share air! Not a Discovery dive! What if's can be played all day! What if a plane landing at a local air field drops blue ice on one of them killing him instantly? Now that's bad for your growth plates and something a good instructor wouldn't have seen coming!

What if you woke up one morning and decided to only post things that were clear and coherent?

 

[emttim]

I mainly lurk... but I can't help chime in here.

Please show me a report or any studies showing damage to a child's growth plates from diving to a depth of 100'. Your child will do more damage to their growth plates strength training for football...

Each child is an individual - barring your ADD's and ADHD's, chances are that child will pick up scuba diving better than most adults.

How many here that have posted currently have a 13 year old? They aren't completely stupid and naive at that age. I'm sure they can grasp the risks, but you run into the "that won't happen to me" mentality.

If your going to panic and bolt to the surface, you will do so at the age of 13 as you would at 18, or 30. I dare say after OW instruction with 2 students, you would have some idea as to the comfort in the water of those 2 divers, but I'll leave that to the instructors.

Well, that's the problem. Kids don't know any better as in they think they're invincible so harm can never come to them. That's all fine and dandy when the kid is riding a bike, playing football, etc. where the worst injury that usually happens (barring a freak accident) is a broken bone. The worst injury that usually happens in diving is a lot more permanent than a broken bone.

I don't even see why the topic of growth plates in kids came up in the first place. Damage to growth plates can happen at any time since again, kids tend to be adept at breaking bones, and breaking any bone at either end of it can risk damage to the growth plates. The issue here is the fact that the kids could have had a runaway descent and met a very horrible death at 1,000+ ft. Not exactly the way anyone wants to go, and a fate that no kid should have to endure.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Would that be where the instructor, with his certified students, waves good bye as they sink out of sight? Hummmm? Our maybe a parent blows a kiss as the sink into 1000ft of black cold killer water? Can we involve a jewel or maybe a Mermaid? Lets just put them all in big plastic bubbles to keep them from ever having to solve a real life problem! The one thing about life is it will kill you, no one gets out alive!

 

[emttim]

Would that be where the instructor, with his certified students, waves good bye as they sink out of sight? Hummmm? Our maybe a parent blows a kiss as the sink into 1000ft of black cold killer water? Can we involve a jewel or maybe a Mermaid? Lets just put them all in big plastic bubbles to keep them from ever having to solve a real life problem! The one thing about life is it will kill you, no one gets out alive!

You're assuming instructors who will put students in situations like that are paying attention in the first place. but I can't argue the fact that everyone dies. Although I'd still rather die underwater than say in a car accident, since one involves doing something I love and the other doesn't, so I suppose it's all relative.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Really? Excellent! Then I suppose I can go out and just read a bunch of books and have enough medical knowledge to have an informed opinion on any topic, no matter how advanced, without even any training or practical skills used? Wow, this reading thing sure is powerful, I wonder how long it'll be before certifications and licenses are a thing of the past...

Are you planning major surgery in the near future? ... yes, this is meant to be humorous sarcasm!

 

[S4L]

Are you planning major surgery in the near future? ... yes, this is meant to be humorous sarcasm!

Funny thing is, most the surgeons I've met say surgery is easy, you just need to know your anatomy

Thalassamania - Thanks for the site, very interesting reports dating back to the 50's! Still did not see ANYTHING related to growth plates. On another note, I'm not quite sure how that came up, but scuba diving in itself will not restrict growth.. Now, BREAKING a growth plate is indeed a different story. BTW, I added this site to my favorites, very interesting info indeed.

emttim - While I agree with you that the "I'm invincible" mentality IS the problem. The fact is these children shouldn't be diving alone and like Papabear said - what ya gonna do? Seal 'em in a bubble?

One thing I've found in my meager existence - **** happens, young or old, dangerous or safe. Even NASA drilled a robot (accidentally) through the surface of Mars. Oops