Richie Kohler accused of looting

[cdiver2]

Ok, I see your point. But who sais that you are ENTITLED to see anything?? Just because it's sunk does not automatically give anyone the right to proclaim that it must remain intact for future generations,

at the expense of identification.

Think of it this way,

A father and son diving a wreck that can't be touched. "wow dad, nice dive, what was the name of that ship?.. Don't know son... How did it sink?.. Can't help you there either. Do we know anything about this ship?.. Sorry son, we can't even touch it! How will we ever know what happened??? Can't help you there either, but we did see some great rusting hull plates didn't we??"

Personally, I would rather know what happened at the expense of a few artifacts, as it gives the dive meaning and purpose.

And, having spent the last 5 days wreck diving with Richie, I can tell you that he's as stand up of a guy as I have ever met!

Safe Diving

This wreck had already been identified, From the Trident web site

After 4 dives on the Akela ,pictured above,

we moved on to one of our favourite wrecks , the Tottori Maru for 4 more dives and one more telegraph

, and then back overnight to Samui.

 

[aue-mike]

This wreck had already been identified

That's not always the case. Further, some "identifications" turn out to be wrong. For example, the wreck of the PAPOOSE off NC. One of the most popular wreck sites in North America and it turns out the wreck everyone dived for decades and everyone thought was definitely the PAPOOSE was in fact a totally different wreck. The PAPOOSE was positively identified over 100 miles to the north just a few years ago due to the recovery of an artifact (by a wreck diver) with a unique manufacturing number linking it to the real PAPOOSE.

 

[cdiver2]

That's not always the case. Further, some "identifications" turn out to be wrong. For example, the wreck of the PAPOOSE off NC. One of the most popular wreck sites in North America and it turns out the wreck everyone dived for decades and everyone thought was definitely the PAPOOSE was in fact a totally different wreck. The PAPOOSE was positively identified over 100 miles to the north just a few years ago due to the recovery of an artifact (by a wreck diver) with a unique manufacturing number linking it to the real PAPOOSE.

There is some doubt that it is the Tottori Maru?

 

[aue-mike]

There is some doubt that it is the Tottori Maru?

I don't know - I was speaking of generalities of artifact recovery and seemingly identified wrecks (Q.E.D. - PAPOOSE).

 

[lamont]

Ok, I see your point. But who sais that you are ENTITLED to see anything?? Just because it's sunk does not automatically give anyone the right to proclaim that it must remain intact for future generations, at the expense of identification.

Think of it this way,

A father and son diving a wreck that can't be touched. "wow dad, nice dive, what was the name of that ship?.. Don't know son... How did it sink?.. Can't help you there either. Do we know anything about this ship?.. Sorry son, we can't even touch it! How will we ever know what happened??? Can't help you there either, but we did see some great rusting hull plates didn't we??"

Personally, I would rather know what happened at the expense of a few artifacts, as it gives the dive meaning and purpose.

And, having spent the last 5 days wreck diving with Richie, I can tell you that he's as stand up of a guy as I have ever met!

Safe Diving

You're not convincing me, however. I don't see the hugely great thing about historical identification. The world isn't going to end because we can't attach a name to a rusting ship.

I mean I understand mike likes to do that, and I think its worthwhile, and I'd like to see him continue to do what he does. But if you make it a choice between mike doing identification, and me being able to dive wrecks in a more pristine state, I'll take the latter.

 

[Jrock1062]

As far as I know there is no law that says you have to divulge the location of a wreck you find. But the conversation is about removing things, and the law is clear on that.

Since i don't know, what is the law and does it apply to all wrecks

 

[nadwidny]

You're not convincing me, however. I don't see the hugely great thing about historical identification. The world isn't going to end because we can't attach a name to a rusting ship.

If everyone had your view then the U869 would just be another pretty fish dive.

I mean I understand mike likes to do that, and I think its worthwhile, and I'd like to see him continue to do what he does. But if you make it a choice between mike doing identification, and me being able to dive wrecks in a more pristine state, I'll take the latter.

Spend some time diving East coast wrecks. I guarantee you'll change you mind. Probably not as far as a TALOS mentality, but you will change your mind.

It's interesting that the opinions on fer/agin' collection are so obviously clear based on geography or experience level. Those on the west coast where there are relatively few wrecks and most of their dives are 'pretty fishies" dives, are pretty much agin' collectiing. Those from the Great Lakes where wrecks last forever and there is nothing else to look at, are definitely agin'. The never-ever wannabees are agin'. And the East coast guy who dives wrecks pretty much exclusively are strongly fer.

It's interesting, but not unexpected, that people are forming such strong opinoins within such narrow frameworks of experience.

As a side point- The person that objected to the collection of artifacts in Thailand by sport divers is going to be feted next week at our provincial museum for their newest exhibition. It's about the Empress of Ireland tragedy. It's going to be his one of his 15 minutes of fame.

All of the artifacts to be displayed were collected by sport divers.

 

[nadwidny]

Since i don't know, what is the law and does it apply to all wrecks

Nobody has the money to find out.

 

[cdiver2]

I don't know - I was speaking of generalities of artifact recovery and seemingly identified wrecks (Q.E.D. - PAPOOSE).

Some times wrecks are no identified correctly. However I am not talking in Generalities, I was talking about the Tottori Maru. If there is no reason to suspect it was wrongly identified then why?, Why are portholes and other brass bits being taken.

Back to the other telegraph that was lifted along with the bell with the wrecks name on it, lets see the the telegraph was lifted to double check the wrecks ID



We started with a wreck we knew, the Nanmei No5 Maru and then moved on to a mark we hoped was going to be the Araosan Maru. We found a large freighter sitting upright but she was a bit too new to be a WW2 maru.

Dan Bartone, skipper of Independence II, an Atlantic wreck diving boat, lifted the telegraph which after cleaning revealed it was made in a Dutch yard in the 1950’s. Evan , Deep Sea Detective cameraman,

found the bell marked ‘Akela’

- his first. According to the NJ divers it’s tradition to kiss the captain’s arse if you want to keep a bell - a tradition which MV Trident will try and preserve- see above.

 

[cdiver2]

If everyone had your view then the U869 would just be another pretty fish dive.

Spend some time diving East coast wrecks. I guarantee you'll change you mind.

Probably not as far as a TALOS mentality, but you will change your mind.

It's interesting that the opinions on fer/agin' collection are so obviously clear based on geography or experience level. Those on the west coast where there are relatively few wrecks and most of their dives are 'pretty fishies" dives, are pretty much agin' collectiing. Those from the Great Lakes where wrecks last forever and there is nothing else to look at, are definitely agin'. The never-ever wannabees are agin'. And the East coast guy who dives wrecks pretty much exclusively are strongly fer.

It's interesting, but not unexpected, that people are forming such strong opinoins within such narrow frameworks of experience.

As a side point- The person that objected to the collection of artifacts in Thailand by sport divers is going to be feted next week at our provincial museum for their newest exhibition. It's about the Empress of Ireland tragedy. It's going to be his one of his 15 minutes of fame.

All of the artifacts to be displayed were collected by sport divers.

You know the rest.

A little further east than you but just about the same, and no it has not changed my mind.