Are Cert/Currency requirements too lenient?

[Graeme Tolton]

Is there anyone else out there who believes that it is far too easy to get and maintain an OW certification? One or two weekends in a quarry and you are certified to dive in all sorts of conditions!d "I got me c-card in Jamaica in the winter, now I want to dive the 38 degree waters of the great lakes in the late spring." No one asks for log books for you to go on basic dives!! I don't think it is such a bad idea. Our sport needs to uphold more standards! If the certification agencies got together and decided that every diver needed to do X number of dives in X time or else a refresher course was needed, perhaps incidents such as this would be fewer and further between. Rental gear or not, these unfortunate divers had to get their air somewhere. Air cannot be bought on the internet and nobody with 4-5 dives owns their own compressor. Don't get me wrong. I am not pushing blame onto the shop that filled tanks for this pair, but I think that standards definitely need to be reconsidered. The guy with the first PADI card ever issued who hasn't done a single dive since certification can walk into a dive shop in 2008 and get rental tanks and regs. "No, I don't need a BCD" The shop owner thinks the diver has one, but the truth is that the diver didn't even train with a BCD, so he doesn't think he needs it!!! It is far too often we hear about dive 5 or 6 with fatal consequences. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Perhaps integrating OW and AOW with restricted depth of 80FT to become the minimum requirement? At least dives 1-10 would be with an instructor present. The system that is in place is OBVIOUSLY failing some of the new divers.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Is there anyone else out there who believes that it is far too easy to get and maintain an OW certification?

Not really. There's no great public safety issue here... a dumbass diver isn't likely to crash into a supermarket and kill a bunch of innocent bystanders.
Along with freedom comes personal responsibility; I'm all for both.
Rick

 

[mikeguerrero]

Capitalism at its best: simple, intro to Economics 101 supply equals demand.... Where there is a need the supply will follow, this weeks special get certified this weekend and your partner gets half off their fees... I've seen it all too many times.... It's not going to change.... Unfortunately, so protect yourself and read and read and ask and ask, then practice best practices...

Dive safely.....

 

[NudeDiver]

Given that anyone can "fake" a logbook, the "X dives within Y time" is really a nonstarter. People can escape this "requirement" simply by faking the logbook.

You can't prevent stupidity, no matter how hard you try. As soon as you think you have made something idiot proof, a new and improved idiot comes along.

 

[NorthO]

Is there anyone else out there who believes that it is far too easy to get and maintain an OW certification? One or two weekends in a quarry and you are certified to dive in all sorts of conditions!d "I got me c-card in Jamaica in the winter, now I want to dive the 38 degree waters of the great lakes in the late spring." No one asks for log books for you to go on basic dives!! I don't think it is such a bad idea. Our sport needs to uphold more standards! If the certification agencies got together and decided that every diver needed to do X number of dives in X time or else a refresher course was needed, perhaps incidents such as this would be fewer and further between.

In Quebec, we do have this kind of control due to the constantly harsh cold conditions in the St-Lawrence... Temp is around hi-30's to low-40's even in summer. So, if you want to dive anywhere in the province and if you want to rent gear or buy air, you need both your c-card and your FQAS card, which is only good for 3 years. When it expires, you need to go to a FQAS-approved instructor (or directly the FQAS office) and prove that you meet one of the following:

1- 10 dives in the last 3 years in conditions that meets those in Quebec
2- Took a refresher course AND did a supervised dive with an instructor
3- Passed a certification

Of course, one could always fake his/her logbook, but at least the instructor really looks at it and could see if it is suspicious...

 

[Rick Murchison]

... FQAS ...

???????
Rick

 

[Walter]

I'm generally in favor of a much more comprehensive approach to training than one usually encounters. OTOH, I believe that is a personal choice, not one to be mandated. My problem with the current system is not the fact that some agencies have low quality classes, but the fact just about everyone either lies or actually believe the lie about quality.

"It's not the agency, it's the instructor," is one of the biggest lies ever told.

"All agencies teach the same thing," is another huge lie. There are really big differences in what is taught from one agency to another.

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

???????
Rick

Fédération Québécoise des Activités Subaquatiques

 

[rstofer]

I would never be a proponent of Diver Police like FQAS. What are they going to do, check the depth and bottom timer when a diver surfaces? That would be the alternative to the system we have today.

The agencies do have recommended depth limits for OW, AOW and Deep recreational diving. Every agency clearly specifies the limits of training and clearly states that divers should stay within those limits. But there is nobody in charge of policing the water to be certain these limits aren't violated. Nor should there be.

What we have is a system where Darwin's Theory dominates. That's fine with me. I understand that if I mess up I can/will die.

There is the cost of recovery efforts but that is minor compared to other government programs. If it weren't for these recovery operations, local Fire & Police agencies couldn't justify having a diving program. No extra 'proficiency' pay, no overtime for training. What would these divers do for extra income?

Our system of training is analogus to having car dealerships issuing driver's licenses. If anybody wanted a real training program, it would be removed from any organization having a tie to retail operations. L.A. County (and other government operations), YMCA and College programs would dominate training. There would be real standards and a lot fewer divers. Perhaps there would be fewer fatalities but that might just be because there would be so few divers.

But, in the end, the sport is relatively safe and fatalities are few. Why create a problem where one doesn't exist?

Richard

 

[DaleC]

Who cares what the other guy is doing? It won't make you a better diver.

Some people have a core belief that most people are capable of personal responsibility and some people have a core belief that most people aren't capable of personal responsibility. The first promote Independence and the second want "big brother" to oversee everything lest (through our own inherent stupidity) we harm ourselves.

Why do people want so much out of a basic OW cert.? The card isn't some guarantee that protects a diver in all conditions and it is never promoted as carte blanche to all aspects of diving. It just means you've gained enough skills to put some air in the tank and begin to participate in the sport. How you do so, to what extent and in what conditions is up to you. I still want to believe that most people, most of the time, can figure that out.

It isn't any more common to hear of someone biting it on dive 5 or 6 as it is to hear of them biting it on dive 100. Age and fitness levels appear to play a more significant role in accidents. So, should we have a maximum age for air refills or require some sort of body mass indexing too? In reality one would save more lives that way.