Ethical practice in wreck diving

[RikRaeder]

MY answer to all of your questions is no. I used to eat lunch in a local hilltop cemetery with a wonderful view of San Francisco Bay. It was nice to sit on the grass and enjoy the environment. If a wreck is not off limits, why shouldn't I enjoy the environment there as well. As far as being in a place where people died violent deaths, I'm living in a city in which hundreds of thousands were burned alive...life goes on and I see everyone around me going about their business.
For those who like to handle the dead, I am a bit concerned. I believe the same standards should be applied as if someone in the cemetery mentioned above took up some disinterred remains and started playing with them. Kind of sick.

 

[Kern]

For those who like to handle the dead, I am a bit concerned. I believe the same standards should be applied as if someone in the cemetery mentioned above took up some disinterred remains and started playing with them. Kind of sick.

Ever heard of an Ossuary.

Ossuary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The chandelier & ceiling decorations of Sedlec Ossuary are.. um... particularly interesting.

 

[meesier42]

as a military man, I have to respect the graves of those who gave their lives defending their country.

The key word their is respect, just as I visit my grandparents grave with respect, I feel I can visit their grave with respect.

Unfortunately, there are people who do not have that level of respect, and destroy and rob from these sites. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone, and since we can never know whom that one will be... For this reason, I believe that many of wreck sites should be off limits to recreational divers. Certainly, I do not believe they should also be off limits to scientific and historical divers that obtain the appropriate permits and take great care to respect, preserve, and document the site.

Luckily, we have great organizations that secure funding to sink ships that have been environmentally cleaned, made diver safe, and a series of other things that provide all of us, safe wrecks that we can all visit and enjoy for years to come.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I tend to disagree. Relying on a policy of allowing permits for scientific and historical divers is just a way to make all wreck diving illegal or at best, a sport for the priviledged elite.

Personally, I do not find the same satisfaction or sense of history diving on an artificially reefed wreck and you can count the number fo wrecks artifically reefed in the last 5 years on one hand. Until the EPA and other government agencies get their collective acts together an come up with reasonable standards for cleaning ships that achieves a balance between expense and excessive cleaning requirements, there will be very few ships artifically reefed - no where near enough to meet demand ort replace the current wrecks inevitably rusting away.

As a community, we have the ability to self police and ensure those that would loot a wreck are held accountable and in the future are unable to find a ride to any wreck. That makes a lot more sense for divers and boat captains alike than to make diving a natural wreck where loss of life occurred illegal.

In another sense the extent to which wrecks are made safe, often alters the wreck to the point where it loses much of the historical interest it may once have had.

I have also taught at the college level and I know many wreck divers with much more knowledge of ship construction, wreck history and the historical context surrounding many wrecks than any college history professor or museaum curator I have met. This compounds one of the problems with a permit process - those who are most impassioned and most knowledgeable are not those with the standing and resources to acquire a permit. On the other end, tenured professors for the most part live and die by publication and there is just not enough historical or archeological interest in the average late 19th or WWI or WWII wreck to get or keep them interested. So in effect, if you go with a permit process, you are in essence totally restricting access to those wrecks.

 

[imasinker]

I have dove a few wrecks that unfortunately people have perished on. I donn't think it is right to remove or play around with items on any wreck, unless you find something and place it on the deck for all to see as some divers do. I do however respect the need and acts of research. Sometimes articles need to be removed to determine the cause of such accidents or for environmental purposes. We have a fun time diving wrecks up here in Ontario. We sometimes play with other clubs and divers by placing gnomes on wrecks or moving them around. We don't do this any wrecks where loss of life occurred. That's out of respect. There are some wrecks here with remains on them. I can't speak for every diver but if and when I visit a wreck that suffered loss of life it is to pay respect, let them know they are not forgotten, to visit history and learn. There are some divers who don't respect this, and through careless diving and no regards to anything they destroy or remove precious wrecks and artefacts.

The Edmund Fitzgerald, she lays in deep water, too deep for scuba, if anything has been removed I know the Bell was. She has been treated with respect for the families involved and is protected by the Ship Wreck Society. I surely hope it stays that way and she and her crew rests in peace

I have a saying, We are only guests when we dive, leave it as you found it.

 

[RikRaeder]

Ever heard of an Ossuary....

Sure I have, but I wouldn't quite rank that in the same class as picking up remains from where they fell and playing around with them. Dorking around with bones from a legitimate interrment like an Ossuary or Catacombs or whatever is also kind of tacky, I think. Frankly, the whole ossuary idea is a bit non-me, to me.

 

[Gilldiver]

In the US and most of western Europe a wreck that is lost today in less then say about 200 feet will be salvage no matter if there are still bodies that are unaccounted for. This salvage is done to clear the wreck, investigate the cause of the wreck, or for environmental reasons, it will have nothing to do with Hallowed ground and bodies.

We have seen this with a car ferry in the English Channel, off of Gibraltar, The Kursk off of Russia, and down near Singapore. Wrecks deeper then this may be left due to economic reasons, or the insurance companies may have to salvage them for the above reasons. But being grave sites is only used as a reason not to spend the $$$.

The act of salvage of the larger ships is by cutting them into sections and then lifting them which destroys the content and any bodies that might be in the way of the cutting wire.

So go ahead and dive the wreck, if you see any remains leave them alone but a wreck is just a steel or wood construction.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Gilldiver makes a good point. Following and even during WWII it was common practice to wire drag wrecks to clear them to a specific navigational depth. There was no concern or special consideration given to wrecks with loss of life. So to say that divers should not dive or disturb these same wrecks on a "hallowed ground" basis is a bit hypocritical.

 

[Barracuda2]

I know my view is "non-traditional" - but here it is anyway. I don't believe in any concept of "hallowed ground". The dead, as wonderful as they may have been, are in fact, dead. Their time has come and gone. I believe the world is for those still living. Personally, I think it is a crying shame that valuable real estate is set aside for a collection of dead bodies (cemeteries). I think it's a serious waste of space that could be put to much better use (not to mention the costs of coffins, funerals, etc.). I certainly don't think that underwater wrecks are special in any way, just because someone died there - no matter who it was or why they died.

FWIW - when I die, please don't lock my body up in a box or urn. Just dump me off in a ditch somewhere and allow my nutrients to benefit those still living. If I die in a shipwreck, you guys are more than welcome to come and check me out - and if you want my watch, wallet, wedding ring, skull, or anything else I've got, you're more than welcome to take it - as I will no longer have any use for it.

Cheers!

I could not have said it better! No one got excited when the Civil War sub was brought up with 8 or 9 crew still aboard. The Hunley? (sp).

 

[RikRaeder]

...So to say that divers should not dive or disturb these same wrecks on a "hallowed ground" basis is a bit hypocritical.

It's only hypocritical if you're the one dragging the wire, so to speak.