Does a dive flag protect you? Think again.

[danvolker]

If any of you have read the rob Murphy thread, then you know a diver was recently run over by a boat. Even though "protected" by a dive flag, and even close to his own boat, a dirtbag boater ignored the flag--or perhaps was not looking at anything but his gps, and had no idea of the danger he was creating.

Everytime I hear some diver say we need more boater education, it makes me want to puke. It is the typical reaction of a person who does not really want to do much--and if they do this tiny thing, then they can feel good about themselves.

The reality is, while some boaters are careful to avoid dive flags, there are many boaters who just don't care at all...some can't stand divers, and with a few beers in them, you would not want them on the same reef you are diving on.

The real deal is, for the large number of boaters who just don't care about dive flags, there needs to be a big punitive threat for running a boat in close proximity to a diver with a flag. It needs to be like a DUI offense, only harsher still, due to the assaultive nature of running over a diver's head.
Until we have legislative change, and can get big teeth for a law, and a large revenue stream for the law enforcement officers ( like speeding tickets..ie., Tifton Georgia( poster town for speed traps and revenue), the whole idea of "enforcement" for the dive flag distance will be a cruel joke..the way it is now.
And for the boater that actually runs over a diver with a flag, you can NOT have the Fish and Wildlife service ready to call this an accident....

If a drunk runs over your 3 year old child, who was sitting in your driveway, off of the main road, would you take this as "just an accident"?

So, here we have a supposedly "active" group of Internet divers, who can sit back and do nothing over an incident like this Rob Murphy Tragedy...and where whining about better education about dive flags is the "easy out" a few "guilty" members of this huge group want to show thier solidarity with.

The only shot we have at fixing this ENORMOUS PROBLEM for all divers, is to "become a real group, a real force", a real lobbying group, and tirelessly fight for legislative changes and huge punitive measures..and the creation of a huge revenue stream for the local law enforcement agency responsible for each reef used by divers.

Dan V

 

[DivingPrincessE]

Everytime I hear some diver say we need more boater education, it makes me want to puke. It is the typical reaction of a person who does not really want to do much--and if they do this tiny thing, then they can feel good about themselves.

Oh yeah you're right. We are awful, much better to do absolutely nothing

The reality is, while some boaters are careful to avoid dive flags, there are many boaters who just don't care at all...some can't stand divers, and with a few beers in them, you would not want them on the same reef you are diving on.

You honestly think boaters TRY to hit divers? What are you smoking? I agree that some nitwits think that using dive flags as obstacle course is fun...but I REALLY don't think their intent is to KILL HUMAN BEINGS hbrother:

The only shot we have at fixing this ENORMOUS PROBLEM for all divers, is to "become a real group, a real force", a real lobbying group, and tirelessly fight for legislative changes and huge punitive measures..and the creation of a huge revenue stream for the local law enforcement agency responsible for each reef used by divers.

Dan V

Well go right ahead Dan. Since you think this is the only solution, why don't you write the law, get the support behind you, find someone to lobby for the cause, and make it happen.

I agree that harsher laws for those that violate the rules already in place would the BEST option. Requiring boaters to pass a test and acquire a license would be great too. The problem is that those solutions are not feasible right now, where as boater education is. So instead of bagging on what some people are trying to do, why not merge the causes. You take the steps to get harsher penalties and use the already organizing movement behind dive flag awareness to help where ever possible.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I am actually trying to figure out if the OP os asking people to do something in particular or just venting at the terrible tragedy that caused the man to lose his legs. Either way it is not really written in a clear and concise manner IMO. I do agree that it was a tragedy and I do believe that there are people doing things tyo try to prevent it from happening again., So I agree with Em....get off your *** and join the good guys - try to make a difference rather than type a confusing post.

 

[D_B]

Dan V ... if you can drive a boat without a license, and without any training ..... what makes you think that they even know what a dive flag is ?

Required training is the answer

Em's sig line is a thought ... Dive Flag Awareness

 

[Nemrod]

Yes, I have had boats deliberately buzz my flag. Yes, there have been similar incidents reported on this board. Yes, some people do try to kill or intimidate you because you are in their way, they don't know you, you are keeping them from fishing their favorite spot, the same anonymity that causes road rage behind the wheel can be found in boating as well, to deny this FACT is to live in a fairy tale. Some people are mean, some are situational sociopaths.

Most of the time it is ignorance except for the jet ski thing, those things are a public nuisance. Renting high speed vehicles to people with no training or understanding of rules of the road, flags of any sort, nothing but a throttle in their hand and no investment in the vehicle.

N

 

[danvolker]

Oh yeah you're right. We are awful, much better to do absolutely nothing



You honestly think boaters TRY to hit divers? What are you smoking? I agree that some nitwits think that using dive flags as obstacle course is fun...but I REALLY don't think their intent is to KILL HUMAN BEINGS hbrother:

What I know, is that there are large numbers of fisherman that are out running the reef top, looking for a fishing spot, on any normal good dive day...Many of these guys could care less about divers--what they do care about is where the fish are, about there beers, and about socializing during thier boat ride. I have seen this too many times....boats running at over 25 mph over a reef top, not looking in front of themselves ( most likely looking at GPS or using an auto pilot, occaisionally glancing around to see if any boats are on collision course with them). They do not see dive flags, and do not care to look for them.
Another fact for you, is that if you were on a boat ruinning a reef top, at 30 mph, you would be shocked at how hard it is to see a dive flag----they are obscured at distance by waves, and at this speed, when you finally see them, they are insanely close ( seconds or less)....If you were not really looking hard, you would miss them.

Clearly, the proactive change in law should include making the reef tops a slow zone---no boat "needs" to run 30mph or faster over the reef top, when the reef crown is only 50 yards to 400 yards wide, and there are miles of ocean on either side with zero divers to worrky about

Well go right ahead Dan. Since you think this is the only solution, why don't you write the law, get the support behind you, find someone to lobby for the cause, and make it happen.

Everyone has their own strengths. I can try to get divers aware of this, and help to create a critical mass of divers--a group large enough to accomplish something....I could also contribute money to a fund for getting the legislative work accomplished....there would also need to be attorneys and people with legislative experieince... and there would be many other strengths members here could bring to bear.

I agree that harsher laws for those that violate the rules already in place would the BEST option. Requiring boaters to pass a test and acquire a license would be great too. The problem is that those solutions are not feasible right now, where as boater education is. So instead of bagging on what some people are trying to do, why not merge the causes. You take the steps to get harsher penalties and use the already organizing movement behind dive flag awareness to help where ever possible.

I would say that 99.9 percent of the divers on this board took a drivers license exam..and that each knows it is illegal to speed. Strangely, a huge chunk of this 99%, speeds in their car, on a regular basis.
It is not about boaters "knowing" more about dive flags. It is about boaters "fearing" dive flags, or more specifically, fearing the ramifications of being caught speeding close by a dive flag.

Regards,
Dan V

 

[danvolker]

I am actually trying to figure out if the OP os asking people to do something in particular or just venting at the terrible tragedy that caused the man to lose his legs. Either way it is not really written in a clear and concise manner IMO. I do agree that it was a tragedy and I do believe that there are people doing things tyo try to prevent it from happening again., So I agree with Em....get off your *** and join the good guys - try to make a difference rather than type a confusing post.

Yes Steve, I am trying to get scubaboard members to do something in particular. I am trying to get them to form a large group, with a mob mentality ( being mad can be a powerful motivator for action) , to lobby effectively for sweeping and effective legislative changes.

Dan

 

[ianw2]

It is most unfortunate that the internet provides an easy way to post your inner most feelings and emotional outbursts and removes all ability to share the non-verbal cues most of us take for granted. We cannot use body language, tone, facial gestures or context (as in conversational context) to modify our language in posts.

I would have a hard time actually believing that boaters actually try to run down divers, water skiers or any one else.

I would have an easy time understanding that people who “drive” boats one day a weekend every month or so have little understanding of the physics of boating. There is not the same friction surface between a boat and the water as with a car and the road. It takes much more effort and distance to turn and to stop in a boat than in a car. Without training and experience, the differences are not readily intuitive.

Perhaps what we need in terms of law is stronger enforcement of the laws already in existence and a more emphatic legal presence on the water during peak recreational hours. Almost every state has laws against operating a boat while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Every state has laws that prohibit actively seeking to endanger others.

In any case, educating boaters and making boater education mandatory would certainly increase awareness.

 

[Guba]

This is another issue that lends credence to the theory that "nothing is as simple as it sounds". Instead, there are many facets that need to be considered, but if they are addressed by a UNIFIED force, we can see some real change. Should there be tougher laws and stricter enforcement? Absolutely. But should boater education be a part of that process? Again--Absolutely. In short, if-as the OP suggested-we divers become a unified front to educate and lobby, we stand a chance at making a change. However, if we let our passions get the best of us and we make devisive statements, we're working against the very cause we are promoting. So let's temper passion with reason, reactiveness with sincere intent, and inflamatory phrases with deliberate purpose. I believe we can make great strides if we work together.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So LEAD THE WAY!! Any group needs a leader and I am sure that most people would follow and participate as much as their situations allow it. I personally live where a dive flag is treated by many boaters as a slalom flag on a ski hill. I would join (even though I am Canadian) your quest because I know that the consequences can be much worse that what has happened to Mr. Murphy (as tragic as that is). Death is too often the outcome (no stats to support this - just my own outlook) of boats meeting divers so I believe this would be a noble cause. Lead The Way and they will follow.

Yes Steve, I am trying to get scubaboard members to do something in particular. I am trying to get them to form a large group, with a mob mentality ( being mad can be a powerful motivator for action) , to lobby effectively for sweeping and effective legislative changes.

Dan