Does a dive flag protect you? Think again.

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:D

Maybe for safety reasons, every dive flag should have a trail line attached, say 50' of floating poly. And to avoid visual polution, make it blue instead of yellow.

Better yet, it could have a "spiderweb" line, with an open center where the flag is at to surface in. :wink:

Yet another reason for me to love cave diving. :D
 
I thin don Francisco has the right of it... it puts me in mind of the 'rule of the sea' that says "Sailboats under sail have right of way over powered vessels"... that works right up until you get into issues like restricted channels and the comparable maneuverability of vessels... in other words... a sailboat's "right of way" is far from absolute... under sail or not... (puts me in mind of the time a whole bunch of small sailboats were sailing INTO Pearl Harbor as a fleet oiler decided to come OUT... Pearl channel is very narrow... and even more so when there's a fleet oiler in the middle of it... the sailboat "scatter drill" was funny...)

... but I digress...

Education is the closest 'non-confrontational' tack I can see that won't exacerbate the problem... kind of like the "start seeing motorcycles' campaign that's running to get motorists to become more conciously aware of the two-wheelers that share their 'restricted channel'...

One thing I think we need to NOT do is paint "all" fishermen... boaters... jetskiers... etc., as a bunch of homicidal maniacs who are sepcifically out to kill divers... extremism to whip up the flock is not helpful in the long run. Are there idiots out there... yep... and they come in all stripes... including divers...

... what happened is a tragity... let's not start the ball rolling toward another one.

If a legislator were to look at this issue (if pushed that far)... my guess would be that the simple and most expedient solution would be to, as don Franscico suggests, pass a law that set aside specific "diving zones" and make all other diving either illegal or require surface support vessels, equipment and personnel to "ensure accidents don't happen"...

... in other words... YOU are the guy diving... YOU are responsible to do so in a manner that doesn't create a hazard to yourself or others...

... this is theoretical of course... but as plausable a course for the crusade to take as any other.
 
Mostly here its complete ignorance as to what an international Alpha flag means. Usually weekend yachties or jet skiers. They need no qualifications for their vessel and as a result know nothing.

Ignorance is no excuse for the law though and if they do violate the Alpha flag regulations the coastguard can (and will) prosecute.

The american "diver" flag is completely meaningless in law here and in lots of the world though so that's worth bearing in mind if you're diving outside the USA - make sure you have a proper alpha flag.
 
3rd, as we could represent a huge revenue stream for enforcement of a slow zone over reef tops, Divers could be very popular as a user group, for government consideration.

"We"... in our numbers... aren't all that significant... and remember that all swords have two edges... might be worth consider what the 'anticipated benifits" will end up costing the diving universe... and I can guarantee you there will be a cost... the "other side" has a louder voice...
 
I can't speak to specifics, since I don't know if there is a Florida law recognizing the red "diver down" flag or they're referring to Coast Guard rules relating to Alpha flags, but we have to consider the implications of the law.

If there's a law mandating a clear 300 foot radius around the flag, how does that affect the rights of vessels in channels less than 600 feet wide, or sailboats with limited maneuverability?

Much importantly, how big does a flag have to be. In order to protect a 300 foot diameter circle a flag must be clearly visible at well over 1,000 feet, otherwise an approaching boat won't have the time or room to execute the required maneuver. (If you don't see this, sketch a diagram and it'll be obvious)

So, if you're looking to the law and enforcement for a solution, be aware that this sword cuts both ways, and consider how big a float you're willing to tow. Also consider whether you would want laws mandating that you tow a float that size.

Consider laws regulating our roads. Despite laws to the contrary, motorists routinely hit pedestrians and cyclists, fines are rarely issued because the motorist has a simple defense - "sorry, I didn't see him until it was too late". Accidents happen, and it'll be small consolation for a diver to know that a boater was fined.

There are two ways to approach life. We can try to modify the world around us, or we can adapt to the way it is. I opt for the latter.

You should not anchor or dive in a restricted channel.

Sail boats have to obey navigational requirements as well as power boats, yes, they would be required to provide deference to a dive flag or similar warning flags. If they are that un-maneuverable then what would keep them from a reef or grounding? Sail boats are not helpless and can in fact maneuver very well.

A dive flag does not require a boat to stay clear but 300 feet (or whatever the ordinance requires) in a 100 foot channel, it would require the vessel to slow down to a prudent speed and remain as clear as possible while still making headway.

All of these are knowledge areas anyone who operates a vessel on public waters should know and be aware of and pay heed to. Surprisingly, there actually are "rules of the road" for vessels. If you operate a boat or jet ski you should know them.

Both Florida law and those law of virtually every state have size requirements and specifications for what flags are to be flown in addition to CG required regulations. In Florida the red flag with white strip is recognized and when flown from a vessel I think it is 24 inches and when from a towed float it is 12 inches. Well, I forget off hand exactly at the moment.

There have been a number of discussions concerning the alpha code flag and the red divers flag and the what and when and where of them.

I think a no alcohol law would be a good start.

Florida Dive flag regulations:

Divers Down Flag Law

N
 
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Most of the time it is ignorance except for the jet ski thing, those things are a public nuisance. Renting high speed vehicles to people with no training or understanding of rules of the road, flags of any sort, nothing but a throttle in their hand and no investment in the vehicle.

N

Whoa - jet ski's are a public nuisance? Why, because in some cases there is a moron piloting the thing? Jet ski's are already one of the most policed and restricted watercraft out there and from my personal experience the MOST harassed by law enforcement as well. Throwing the whole industry under the bus because of the rental industry is a bit much, no? There are thousands of careful, responsible, PWC owners and drivers. To imply that as soon as a person sits on one they are beyond ignorant is just plain wrong.
 
"We"... in our numbers... aren't all that significant... and remember that all swords have two edges... might be worth consider what the 'anticipated benifits" will end up costing the diving universe... and I can guarantee you there will be a cost... the "other side" has a louder voice...
We in our numbers, are quite a bit larger than manatees. :)
The law enforcement officials make a tidy sum of revenue for thier agencies, by ticketing boaters who go too fast in manatee zones.

We have a bigger right to slow zones near dive sites, than manatees do ( we vote and pay taxes, manatees do not :)

Far more revenue would be produced by ticketing boaters driving at excessive speeds, over south florida reefs when dive flags are present over the reef , and in proximity to the boaters.....and unlike the intracoastal waterway where the no-wake zones are annoying, a boater can easily run fast several hundred yards outside or inside of the reef structure, and this will not be significant in changing their arrival time, to whereever they are going.....but it would be significant in lessening the danger to divers.

Divers are so damn passive, just like cyclists....passive means easy to be ignored.

Dan V
 
...We have a bigger right to slow zones near dive sites, than manatees do ( we vote and pay taxes, manatees do not :).......


We are not yet on the endangered list. The way we are going we may just end up there (or at least "Intelligent Humans" may anyways). This post does not say I do not necessarily agree with you (I do agree to a limited point) but just to point out your comparison makes little sense IMO because Manatees are protected for a reason.
 
Everyone watch what you ask for, you might just get it! I, for one, don't want legislation that requires I lug around a diver down flag on a tether everywhere I go. I also don't want to be legally restricted as to where I can SCUBA dive and where I cannot. Personally, I can hear a boat coming at me through the water a mile away, so it is hard for me to imagine anyone getting run over by a boat unless they were diving in unsafe conditions. In any case, my vote is to risk it with the unsafe boaters as opposed to being forced to comply with a bunch of stupid "public roadway" type rules.
 

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