In response to TsandM's message regarding gas planning

[elan]

As I said in the other thread ... this isn't a gas planning issue, it's an awareness issue.
All the knowledge in the world won't do you any good if you don't put any thought into applying it.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Do not you think guys that they are one family awareness is the mother of the other

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

I certified a year ago, and I can tell you that after OW I had no idea how much of an impact depth had on air consumption. I knew that it impacted it, but the scale I didn't understand. Between finding a mentor to dive with and taking a Deep class soon after, I began to understand, probably the most important to me was doing a SAC calculation. Then I read Bob's articles and built a spreadsheet model based on the information he provided (yes I'm a geek) and played with scenarios, that's when the reality of it hit me.

That understanding helped make me more aware, because I now understand the importance of that awareness. So yes, they are in the same family and they are chicken and egg relationship.

 

[geokr]

I certified a year ago, and I can tell you that after OW I had no idea how much of an impact depth had on air consumption. I knew that it impacted it, but the scale I didn't understand. Between finding a mentor to dive with and taking a Deep class soon after, I began to understand, probably the most important to me was doing a SAC calculation. Then I read Bob's articles and built a spreadsheet model based on the information he provided (yes I'm a geek) and played with scenarios, that's when the reality of it hit me.

That understanding helped make me more aware, because I now understand the importance of that awareness. So yes, they are in the same family and they are chicken and egg relationship.

I would like to try that spreadsheet - could you post it as an attachment?

 

[ligersandtions]

I would like to try that spreadsheet - could you post it as an attachment?

I have a spreadsheet that I generated for rock bottom as well....in fact, there are two sheets within the spreadsheet. One is called "Recreational Rock Bottom" and is based exactly on what Bob's article outlines. The other is called "Min Gas" which includes a deep stop and stops every 10 feet above that up to the surface.

It's attached for you to take a look at. Please note that you will need to input your combined RMV, tank capacity, working pressure, and desired gas reserve for you to customize it for yourself. Hope this helps....any feedback is welcome and appreciated!

 

[eponym]

Beester - thanks for the thread and the pointer.

In other circumstances I would not take the video at face value, given the added soundtrack (Cash was one of the greats, I know) and the post-filming editing, but my direct experience confirms that this happens.

I trained a married couple about four years ago. A few months later, they asked me to train their thirteen-year-old daughter. We did two academic and two pool sessions, then they took her off with them on one of their regular warm-water cruise-ship jaunts with optional dives on offer for certified divers.

When my student returned, she began to tell me about the divemasters competing for the honor of taking her under. Her first dive ancillary to the cruise was to 85 feet with a divemaster. At least she was accompanied throughout the dive!

At that point I said I didn't want to hear any more. We continued with the course and she completed it just fine. I was the one shaken to the core. I blame the parents for even allowing her to dive before certification.

-Bryan

 

[diver 85]

Sorry, but 10 to 1 since everything turned out "O.K." for the 2, no lesson was learned....They'll probably learn "it" when they're needing for a deadman's box----but----it will be too late........Some just NEVER catch on.....

 

[Mitchell]

A chill went up and down my spine. The music was very fitting. The wording also.
Thanks for posting.

 

[Divedoggie]

A chill went up and down my spine. The music was very fitting. The wording also.
Thanks for posting.

I agree. Absolutely felt chills watching that video. The Johnny Cash soundtrack made it even more intense...

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the debriefing. Where would you even start with the criticism? It was blind luck that the videographer ran across them and had the presence of mind to redirect their fate.

So, where did they go wrong? With gas planning? Sure but they ignored almost every aspect of even the most minimal standards and training.
Not even close to diving any sort of realistic plan.
As new divers, they should have not been deeper than 60 feet.
As recreational divers 132 feet should have been rock bottom.
They ignored the possibilities and signs of narcossis.
They neglected to monitor gauges.
Lost contact with the DM.
THE DAD HAD HIS 12 YEAR OLD DOWN THERE WITH HIM!!!

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

They ignored almost every aspect of even the most minimal standards and training.
Not even close to diving any sort of realistic plan.
As new divers, they should have not been deeper than 60 feet.
As recreational divers 132 feet should have been rock bottom.
They ignored the possibilities and signs of narcossis.
They neglected to monitor gauges.
Lost contact with the DM.
THE DAD HAD HIS 12 YEAR OLD DOWN THERE WITH HIM!!!

I sympathize with everyone promoting the idea that gas planning ought to be part of OW training. However, my sub-aquatic canine associate has it nailed. Given that these divers have already broken just about every injunction given to them in their training, why assume that the problem was their ignorance of gas planning or dive planning?

My gut feeling is that problems like this cannot be saved with training, they can only be saved with mentorship. Some folks need to be exposed to experienced dive companions after they graduate so that whatever they temporarily memorized to get their card is driven home through observation and socialization rather than lectures and tests.

 

[Scubagolf]

I would like to know if this was brought to the attention of the dive guide when they were back on the boat. Probably not.....:depressed: Actually, it is pretty wierd. It's one thing to exceed 70' and to go 90+, but 150'?