Medical Privacy Concern

[JKPAO]

Would a pressure and O2 tolerence test be to much to ask? Oh I know it would cost money but it would answer some question as to if an individual can handle Pressure and elevated o2 levels.
See you topside! John

 

[rstofer]

This has certainly been a well responded thread.

When I took NAUI OW I in Singapore, the LDS referred all students to a doctor who specialized in diving medicine. The examination included a chest X-ray, the usual medical history interview and an ear, nose and throat evaluation. I was only 42 and in pretty good shape so I don't know if the examination got more involved for older people or people with contraindications.

In theory, there were no exceptions; get signed off by this particular doctor or no diving.

Except... One fellow managed to skip past the exam. He also failed to mention he had had some kind of upper respiratory problem the week before class started. So, upon surfacing from the first open water dive, he was coughing blood. Not a good sign!

I still remember the sight, 21 years later. We were diving at Pulau Hantu (Ghost Island) - a little irony there... I surfaced aft of the stern of the boat and the instructor was on the port quarter and the diver was on the starboard quarter. They couldn't see each other but I could see the blood. I told the instructor about it and he was dumbfounded for a moment. Like he didn't grasp what I was saying. He got the strangest look on his face as he swam around the boat to survey the problem.

AFAIK, everything worked out fine but the student never returned. I suspect that the instructor had a bit of serious introspection re: how he managed to let a student slip by the medical. I doubt that it ever happened again. Still, what if the student had the exam two weeks before the OW dives and developed the condition after the exam. The results would have been the same.

What to do about the form? Privacy isn't my biggest concern with the form. The fact is, I am not an ideal candidate for dive instruction (that's a nice way to phrase it). However, my Dr did said that he would have no problem signing off on my medical conditions for diving. I wonder if he really knows what is involved? I wonder if he has ever done any diving? He certainly knows what meds I am taking and why.

In the end, I make all of my own choices. It's worked out pretty well so far.

Richard

 

[knotical]

What do you do if you learn someone has lied on the form?
I don't want to dive with a liar.

 

[rstofer]

What do you do if you learn someone has lied on the form?
I don't want to dive with a liar.

Well, since I am the one likely to lie, by your standards I couldn't even dive solo. I don't have such high standards.

Actually, I don't give a rat's behind whether other divers tell the truth or not. My buddy is never my backup plan and it's not in my nature to trust other people so I guess it just doesn't matter. I'm not a dive professional and the California Supreme Court says I am under no obligation to assist anybody and, in fact, I put myself at extreme financial risk if I do.

So, I will do what I can for another diver but, unless it's family, I won't put myself at extreme risk. As to events that may befall me? Who cares? I've been a lot of places and done a lot of things. I haven't missed much! But all good things come to an end and it's a given that living is 100% fatal, sooner or later.

Now, there is the question of whether a dive buddy should put their faith in me. Clearly not. We should get that squared away right up front. I'll do what I can but there is a limit to both my skills and my capability to execute those skills. So, if a diver plans to rely on me as their backup plan, they should dive with someone else.

Richard

 

[NudeDiver]

I got tired reading at page 6 but a simple solution is not to have the questionnaire at all and require a medical release from everybody with the doctor simply stating the person is cleared, period, end of story. No information as to whether the applicant has medical issues or not is indicated on the form. No release no training. Fair for everyone.

I was going to suggest that many pages ago, but I didn't bother - since there was this big (and contradictory) insistence that the "dive pro" MUST know the particulars, since it may cause he/she/it/them/whomever to respond differently - but at the same time, that it would be fine if PADI (or whomever) changed the form to get rid of the questions and just have a doctor sign off. At that point, it seemed to be arguing for the sake of arguing and I lost much of my interest in providing additional suggestions

What do you do if you learn someone has lied on the form?
I don't want to dive with a liar.

The same could be said for people who pee in their wetsuit, drink Coke, and enjoy music by Michael Jackson.

I guess I would dive with people who pee in their wetsuit.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Again this is not about diving and knowing you have not been released to dive. It is about not sharing with the dive shop that you hava a condition that the DR released you to dive with. In other words DR said I could do dive with XYZ condition and you don't need to know about my condition because my DR said I am at no more risk than Joe student over there. I'm sorry but it just isn't your business and if I have to lie to keep it my business only because you ask question that you should not be asking then flame me.

No flames from me

I really do get the privacy issue. And in the example you give above, I'd have zero ethical problems with you keeping your history to yourself.... if you have a physical condition and have been cleared to dive, then have at it.

My concern is with those that have known medical condition that would prevent them from diving safely today, and out of inflated ego or self-delusion decide to hide it from those who really do need to know (buddies, DM, Instructor, etc.). At that point you step across an ethical / moral line. <----- The preceding is not directed at anyone who's posted in this thread, it is just a general statement.

I think I like Captain's solution the best (all divers must present a medical clearance before beginning a class). It probably would be very unpopular with many divers, but would certainly end any privacy concerns.

Best wishes.

 

[SDAnderson]

But I'm also a big believer in individual responsibility and choice. If chooses to step out in front of a Mack truck - well, that's up to them. If someone wants to "risk more than the class is worth" - that's up to them too.

Individual responsibility as a justification for lying? That's incoherent bull****. You debase yourself in your quest for personal gratification.

When you take a class from me I have a "duty to care" for you which means I am responsible for the safety of you and everyone else in the class. I have to be willing to risk my own safety to ensure yours and I'm supposed to make sure that you don't jeopardize the safety of your classmates. You may not like that but that's the way it is. I accept that responsibility and take it very seriously however my acceptance is conditional on your willingness to be honest and forthright.

We start with a basic premise: you don't have to answer the questions and I don't have to teach you. If you want to take the class you have to answer the questions. Refuse, for whatever reason, and we can still be friends. Lie to me, for whatever reason, and we can't.

 

[NudeDiver]

Individual responsibility as a justification for lying?

You may not like that but that's the way it is.

Lie to me, for whatever reason, and we can't.

Well...shucks. I hope you don't ask me if your wetsuit makes you look fat.

Reminds me of the Office of the Holy Inquisition...as one is being "put to the question"....

Inquisitor: "Just confess - tell us the truth, and all will be forgiven!!"

Sinner: "Tell me what the truth is!"

 

[SDAnderson]

You may not like that but that's the way it is.

Well...shucks. I hope you don't ask me if your wetsuit makes you look fat.

Reminds me of the Office of the Holy Inquisition...as one is being "put to the question"....

Inquisitor: "Just confess - tell us the truth, and all will be forgiven!!"

Sinner: "Tell me what the truth is!"

In no manner does the required medical statement bear any resemblance to the inquisition, your analogy is either disingenuous or ignorant.

If you don't like the questions, you aren't required to answer them and you won't be punished because you don't. We aren't talking about a little white lie here, "yes" answers are a serious indication of a real and immediate danger to yourself and to those who will be around you. No matter how much sophistry and hyperbole you employ in your argument, lying, especially when it endangers others, is morally bankrupt. That's a lesson you should have learned in kindergarten.

What we are talking about is balancing the rights and privileges of the individuals in a group you would like to join with commensurate obligations and responsibilities. Personal responsibility isn't a license do whatever you want and the rest of the world be damned, sometimes being honorable means you have to make the hard choice and do the unpleasant thing. That's another lesson you should have learned in kindergarten.

 

[fishy fellow]

interesting subject, i find the hassle and expense of getting a doctor to sign off on exactly the same thing that was signed off last time i upgraded my PADI standing somewhat hypocritical. i understand the problem of liability, but think having passed the first time is enough already. no need to mention that some of the other certification routes such as SSI may not be as picky but then PADI being US based are more prone to the law suit culture.