Horse beating continues: Diver in Cozumel REFUSES to remove gloves and knife.

[Kevin Carlisle]

I am on neither side here. A law is the law and I think its a stupid one but it is the law. But why do you say this silly, stupid argument will never go away? You are the one who started it. Just confused on why you brought it up if your tired of hearing it.

And so repeats this silly, stupid argument. It'll apparently never go away. You can justify your position seven ways from Sunday. Call it "safety gear." Try to quote some book or website where a knife is listed as required. That changes nothing. The local regulations override any of that.

Look at that object strapped to your leg or BC. Is it a knife? Are those things on your hands gloves? If so then you have a choice: Remove them or don't dive in Cozumel. It's just that simple.

-Charles

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Why should I change my kit?

Childish? No. In fact, until today I didn't know of the knife rule. I heard of the glove rule. (other places have it) I don't wear gloves in warm water locations, so it wouldn't impact me.

So in my case I would be showing up in Coz...having some DM demand I take off my one piece of safety gear. Would I take it off??? In reality, maybe. Either way I wouldn't be too pleased and I really wouldn't be pleased with the DM if he had even half the attitude of CZMDM.

I happen to agree with the intent of the rule...I just think the rule itself borders on silly/stupid.

That's like saying if you drive through a new town and the cops demand you drive 15mph, but you're used to driving 35, so by god you're gonna keep driving 35.

In any case, it doesn't matter. It's not an argument you can win, just like my speeding ticket example. When it comes down to it, your personal preference is not above the law. You can be removed and banned from the park. And why make it personal with the DM? He's REQUIRED to enforce the law as a part of having a park permit. i.e., don't shoot the messenger.

 

[JeffG]

I am a dive instructor, boat captain and DM. I have helped produce U/W TV commercials and TV specials. I am not a ***** that has to cater to any demand a fool may make, illegal or not. Part of my job is to see that the park laws are enforced.

You're the Man!

LOL

 

[mdax]

i'm unfamiliar with cozumel, are knives not allowed because folks previously cut pieces off coral or sink them into coral to hold on in currents?
or just the whole mexico disarms everyone but corrupt police and drug dealers thing...

seems like DM's and boats could just have a box of lender shears they're so darn cheap.

Personally i stay away from countries having violent wars between gangs and government officials.

 

[JeffG]

That's like saying if you drive through a new town and the cops demand you drive 15mph, but you're used to driving 35, so by god you're gonna keep driving 35.

Thats the problem with analogies. They don't always make sense or did you miss the point?

In any case, it doesn't matter. It's not an argument you can win, just like my speeding ticket example. When it comes down to it, your personal preference is not above the law. You can be removed and banned from the park. And why make it personal with the DM? He's REQUIRED to enforce the law as a part of having a park permit. i.e., don't shoot the messenger.

Maybe through discussion some progress in changing the rule can take place.

All you are blabbing about and making references to have never happened.

 

[matt_w]

I comprehend, I just don't agree. I guess reading comprehension isn't required to be a DM.

I am the customer.

And he is authorized by Mexican law to enforce a regulation in a National Marine Park. If you do not like the law, you do not have to dive in the Cozumel National Marine Park. This is not some part of Business/Customer relationship or something that is a decision left up to the discretion of the Divemaster. Originally the law said people could cary gloves and knives, but not use them. Oddly people continued to pry coral off the reef. The Government strengthened the law and enlisted the dive operators to enforce it.

I have been diving for 25 years and have never encountered a safety situation where a line cutter or shears would bot be preferable to a dive knife. The only advantage a dife knife has over wither of the other tools is prying. Prying is exactly what they are trying to prevent. The person described by the OP was childish and all of the people suggesting that DMs who are trying to enforce this regulation are equally childish. If you don't like the rules, build your own national marine park.

and I don't you have much knowledge of diving period, given that you look at the world with blinders on.


wooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

I'll just go to one that doesn't have stupid rules or chest thumping DM's.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Thats the problem with analogies. They don't always make sense or did you miss the point?

Sure it does. You're not willing to change your routine to comply with a law. Simple as that.

I'm thinking this has gotten 'personal' for you now. You've dug in and, just to make a point, you're not going to budge for anything. Forget that $5 and a quick swap-out of your knife would solve it all. I'm thinking this is just an ego situation for you. You're not willing to bend to someone else out of your own pride.

 

[deco_martini]

Yes...it DOES matter, at least to me. Even in the Army I always questioned "why" when I could.

This ain't the army. It's a vacation. You don't stand in the customs line and ask "why do i have to show my passport?"

You don't stand in the airport security line and ask "why do i have to remove my shoes, its not like i have a bomb in them".

If questioning authority means getting a cavity search, you bend. If it means removing a useless knife from your BC, then all of a sudden it matters when you can try to browbeat some low paid DM who just wants to get the boat back to dock by lunchtime.



Them's the marine park rules. Don't like em? Go dive some crappy quarry.

 

[matt_w]

I am a dive instructor, boat captain and DM. I have helped produce U/W TV commercials and TV specials. I am not a ***** that has to cater to any demand a fool may make, illegal or not. Part of my job is to see that the park laws are enforced.

It is also important to remember it will not matter how you treated your customers if you are no longer permitted to take divers into the park.

 

[deco_martini]

mandatory in GUE. from the standards document:

knife explicitly, not shears, no exceptions.

That's it. Try to pretend she wasn't talking about PADI/SSI/NAUI/YMCA/etc.

"I found a cert org that covers less than 1 percent of certified divers. That invalidates what you say!" Bzzzzt, thanks for playing.