Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits

[paddledive]

For those who are able to attend Tuesday's Council meeting, can we agree to meet 1 hour earlier (6pm) at the Kelvin Grove parking lot?

This will give us an opportunity to organize ourselves and nominate a speaker. I REALLY don't want to be the speaker for several reasons (including my line of work) that I will explain in person.

 

[Sintax604]

Sounds like a plan.

Would it be too Hollywood to sit in the council chambers with our masks on?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sounds like a plan.

Would it be too Hollywood to sit in the council chambers with our masks on?

It wouldn't hurt to wear something that identifies you as a diver ... but again, I'd recommend keeping it tasteful and low-key (alienating non-divers won't help your cause).

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

 

[paddledive]

Present yourself in the manner that you wish to be taken. I want to be taken seriously, so I'm going to dress in the same manner.

 

[fisheater]

Agreed about the dress and attitude.

When a cyclist was killed locally by a drunk driver (three time the legal limit at 10 in the morning!), a huge group of us attended each court hearing wearing suits and carrying bike helmets. We didn't have to say anything to get our message across, and that included extensive newspaper, television and radio coverage. (BTW, the drunk driver pled guilty, not wanting to go through a trial with us in the courtroom.)

 

[paddledive]

Can we please agree to meet at 6pm at the Kelvin Grove parking lot to organize ourselves and select a representative from our group?

I have sent an email to the Sr Admin of Lions Bay (Anne Page) asking that we be put on the agenda for Tuesday's Council meeting. So that part ought to be taken care of...I hope.

I have cut&copied this advise from a friend of mine. Can we try to hash out as many of these details before we meet on Tuesday?

1. Are we on the agenda? (Yes, done by me on Sept 4)
2. What precisely do we want to say, and how?
3. What do we know about the precise complaints that have been made? What evidence did council have before it other than anecdotal complaint?
4. What steps, if any, has council made to communicate with the dive community?
5. What efforts have the dive community made to communicate with Lions Bay.
6. What are we as divers prepared to offer to the community to address whatever legitimate concerns it may have?

Bottom line: the key to effective advocacy is to get facts, and present them clearly. If we are serious about reversing this, my suggestion is not simply to show up at a meeting, but to do our homework first and show up well armed.

 

[joolz]

Just a suggestion, but it may be helpful if you offer compromises instead of just asking to restore the status quo. Obviously some residents have some issues with divers, but we don't know exactly what they are so we can't suggest any alternatives. Technically I think they do have the right to ban scuba diving -- for everybody -- from Kelvin if they wanted to, but that's not our objective.

Some compromises to consider:

1. if Lions Bay turned some of the resident-only parking into paid parking with a 3 hour limit, that would help generate some revenue. Right now the resident passes generate nothing

2. make some parking spots available on the other side of the railway tracks closer to the washrooms so divers aren't changing within range of that old guy with the telephoto lens

3. offer to restrict diving to daylight hours, say, between 10am and 6pm. Night divers must drive them crazy

4. offer to restrict diving to the spring, fall and winter. Visibility is terrible in the summer anyway

5. offer to help fund the upgrade of the facilities through donations from local divers. Even something as simple as a hedge would work as a changing room

I don't think there's a solution that would make everybody happy, but I doubt we'll get very far if we give them a list of demands and expect them to amend their bylaws to suit people who don't live there. If we're courteous and demonstrate that we're prepared to help find workable solutions to their concerns, they may actually be willing to listen to us. Threats of lawsuits and human rights complaints will only create a hostile atmosphere, so even though those are going on in the background, it's best not to draw attention to them.

Does anybody know any divers who live in Lions Bay? They should be in on this too.

 

[paddledive]

Thanks Joolz.

I do disagree with some of your suggestions, but this is exactly the sort of thing we need to sort out before Tuesday.

Please keep the input coming.

Some more advice from friends who have played this game before: Do not go to Tuesday's Council meeting at all, but use the time instead to get ourselves properly organized. I still want to go to the meeting, but maybe for nothing more than to open the lines of communication with Lions Bay.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Just a suggestion, but it may be helpful if you offer compromises instead of just asking to restore the status quo. Obviously some residents have some issues with divers, but we don't know exactly what they are so we can't suggest any alternatives. Technically I think they do have the right to ban scuba diving -- for everybody -- from Kelvin if they wanted to, but that's not our objective.

Some compromises to consider:

1. if Lions Bay turned some of the resident-only parking into paid parking with a 3 hour limit, that would help generate some revenue. Right now the resident passes generate nothing

2. make some parking spots available on the other side of the railway tracks closer to the washrooms so divers aren't changing within range of that old guy with the telephoto lens

3. offer to restrict diving to daylight hours, say, between 10am and 6pm. Night divers must drive them crazy

4. offer to restrict diving to the spring, fall and winter. Visibility is terrible in the summer anyway

5. offer to help fund the upgrade of the facilities through donations from local divers. Even something as simple as a hedge would work as a changing room

I don't think there's a solution that would make everybody happy, but I doubt we'll get very far if we give them a list of demands and expect them to amend their bylaws to suit people who don't live there. If we're courteous and demonstrate that we're prepared to help find workable solutions to their concerns, they may actually be willing to listen to us. Threats of lawsuits and human rights complaints will only create a hostile atmosphere, so even though those are going on in the background, it's best not to draw attention to them.

Does anybody know any divers who live in Lions Bay? They should be in on this too.

The other thing that would be helpful is if there are any businesses in town that benefit from the presence of divers. As I recall, we had to pay a fee to get in there. Does that money go to the City? Do y'all visit local restaurants, etc. while you're in town?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[sschlesi]

Councilor Peach Akerhielm has added a new article regarding diving at Lions Bay to the lionsbay.net site, here is a link Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Visitors, Visitors! .

Most interesting is that the article indicates they will not be enforcing the diving ban in the immediate future, though it gives no indication of if/when they may decide to start enforcing it again.