Missing Diver - Grand Cayman Sept 21, 2009

[Cudabait]

Let's cut out the crap! This thread concerns the loss of a diver's life, not a forum for pontificated, exchange of one way opinions. RIP, if that be the case.

 

[Epinephelus]

Let's cut out the crap! This thread concerns the loss of a diver's life, not a forum for pontificated, exchange of one way opinions. RIP, if that be the case.

Speaking of crap, pontification and one way opinions...

E

 

[SCUBA482]

I was diving off 7 mile beach on the day in question while on cruise. Not sure if I should list the dive operation here, but I will add that the briefings were good, but the first dive included a 90' descent, follow the DM in a large circle (on the edge of a wall) and then up the reef back to the anchor line. We were told the cruise line set the 80' max depth limit for liability reasons, yet nobody was asked how deep they went or about any issues with that depth based upon training or the lack of.

My only input would be I didn't like that dive of the day. While following the DM, the other 11 people were doing whatever they wanted to some degree. I had some idiot cut in front of my son and I doing flips underwater as if he was narced. The DM had no idea and I was on her heels and slightly above with my son due depth and experience levels. When I hit my gas plan limit (which was only my own), I turned the dive to a shallower depth and began a SS. No contact from the DM there either. This was my first dive in GC and while it was an excellent dive site I did not feel safe following the "group's plan." After a few minutes under water I wanted to keep a safe distance from the "vacation divers." ALL of the divers were from the cruise ship and in hearing some of the conversations led me to believe they were just vacation divers. One couple told me they had never done a salt water OW dive! Did the dive op know or ask? NO. To be fair to them though they dove safely IMO.

All this to be said, I did not see a major search operation while diving that day, but there were lots of storms dropping visibility pretty good. If one is to dive anywhere I have to agree with Jimlap that they must be a self-sufficient buddy team! The first dive along the wall ( I believe they stated a 7000fsw drop) was almost a check dive with the group and the DM's because the second dive was shallower 52' at a wreck and reef where the dive op cut the buddy teams loose on their own. I can see how this can be a reoccurring problem if the dive ops don't keep a good eye on the divers. We as divers should be responsible for ourselves so I'm not totally blaming the dive ops for these deaths, but I would think requiring a brief examination of the log books might be in order to gauge how to break up the groups. With the competition for cruise group bids, anything to make it easier on the vacationer is probably why this isn't happening. I know the cruise line was hesitant to give out the dive op under contract during the planning phase too. The cruise shore excursion thought they would be able to field questions themselves (as some do dive) but they couldn't and ended up listing a couple dive ops they used. Face it, this is a tourist spot and diving is a business. While we can hope some dive ops attempt to make things safe and enjoyable for the groups, we must police ourselves too.

 

[Web Monkey]

because the second dive was shallower 52' at a wreck and reef where the dive op cut the buddy teams loose on their own. I can see how this can be a reoccurring problem if the dive ops don't keep a good eye on the divers. We as divers should be responsible for ourselves so I'm not totally blaming the dive ops for these deaths, but I would think requiring a brief examination of the log books might be in order to gauge how to break up the groups. With the competition for cruise group

I've been to GC a bunch of times and the dive ops (Including Divers Down) all seem to have a set plan of "a wall dive followed by a reef dive". Except that there have been a number of recent fatalities and close calls, it would be like the Greek Restaurant skit from Saturday Night Live, where no matter what the customer orders, the counter guy yells out "cheeseburger! cheeseburger!".

The only way I was able to get two reef dives on the last trip (brought a new diver) was by telling the guy in the shop and the DM on the boat that if he insisted on going to a wall, we wouldn't be getting off the boat.

The mob dive you encountered is pretty much standard for a cruise ship dive in any location. Congratulations on being responsible for yourself!

Terry

 

[tanks4thedive]

Thats exactly what i was thinking. Must be a staff instructor thing!

People that speculate from afar can never be trusted and to be honest it shows a total lack of respect.

Let's cut out the crap! This thread concerns the loss of a diver's life, not a forum for pontificated, exchange of one way opinions. RIP, if that be the case.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Thats exactly what i was thinking. Must be a staff instructor thing!
People that speculate from afar can never be trusted and to be honest it shows a total lack of respect.

Let's cut out the crap! This thread concerns the loss of a diver's life, not a forum for pontificated, exchange of one way opinions. RIP, if that be the case.

Y'all care to get specific with your whines? These posts add absolutely nothing to the identification of hazards or to lessons learned or to constructive discussion on how to avoid such mishaps in the future. Without confronting what you consider "pontificated, exchange of one way ideas" and why you consider those ideas "crap," or what you consider "shows a total lack of respect," they just amount to "flinging poo" and nothing more.
If you two want to present anything useful, please do. Otherwise, take the whines to the Whine & Cheese forum.
Rick

 

[Granny Scuba]

..... Does anybody know if it was a guided group dive or a buddy dive (or where his buddy is?) .....Terry

Do you not have to have a buddy in a group dive?

Is this GC dive similar to a drift dive (like Cozumel)? Is the "wall" referenced like the drop off in a Cozumel drift dive?

 

[Cave Diver]

Do you not have to have a buddy in a group dive?

Is this GC dive similar to a drift dive (like Cozumel)? Is the "wall" referenced like the drop off in a Cozumel drift dive?

The "wall" is indeed a drop off similar to what is found in Cozumel. In Cayman, it's often close enough to be done from shore in most areas, if you're willing to do a bit of a surface swim.

With very few exceptions, I've rarely found an appreciable amount of current on any of my dives in Cayman. As such, I'm not aware of any ops doing drift dives, but since I prefer to shore dive with my buddies vs. boat dive with a group, I can't say for a certainty it's not done.

 

[Splash-X]

An experienced diver, he was in a group of seven, including two guides and his wife, Rose. It was their 13th wedding anniversary.

Based on the information from the news article Terry posted, it would appear that the wife was also diving when the accident occurred? If I understand it correctly, there were a total of 7 divers? 2 guides, 5 divers? One guide can't manage 2-3 people?

Even if it were 7 divers + 2 guides, those numbers suggest that the guides are lacking in group management. That's 3 to 4 divers for one guide to manage.


I could understand if this was a single guide with 10 divers, maybe the DM loses track of a buddy team during the dive but two guides?

 

[Web Monkey]

Do you not have to have a buddy in a group dive?

You should always have a buddy. A real buddy. Someone to keep an eye on you as well as someone you keep an eye on, regardless of what the DM does or says or what kind of dive is planned.

"Mob dive" DMs sometimes buddy people up, sometimes not, but even when they do, the "buddy" generally vanishes as soon as everybody hits the water. Having an actual buddy that will stick with you and can perform basic SCUBA skills like sharing air, can easily mean the difference between life and death, or at the very least, prevent your survivors from spending the rest of their lives wondering 'What happened to <insert name here>'?"

Terry