I am happy to advance that position.
I would not have expected less from you.
In my expereience, a Proficient or Expert diver, selected with the same care that one should expend selecting a diving instructor is likely to do as good (or better) job training an individual in the entry-level diver skills as would a certified diving instructor.
You mean in your own particular experience? Could you also explain why a non professional is likely to do as good a job
or better as a
professional certified diving instructor. I emphasises the word
professional because not all divers with an instructor certifiction work as instructors. My sister has a degree in architecture but she would never refer to herself as an
architect.
...yes?
I learned to dive without benefit of an Instructor, just my Dad (who was also a non-diver and a book).
When is your life story going to be made into a blockbuster?
Along the way we meet other more experienced divers and picked a few things up from them.
Sounds totally normal to me but it doesn't make the case why
mentors are better than instructors.
After I had been diving for over a dozen years I took an entry level SCUBA course strictly as a social occasion, I had fun but learned nothing.
Is that the instructor's fault or the student's?
A year later a guy I dove with a lot who was a PADI Instructor certified me as an AI, basically for his convenience.
Thank God,
times have changed.
I did all the tests and such, but basically all I learned was about PADI, nothing about diving per se.
AI is about learning about PADI. The knowledge and skill developments are at DM and IE level.
Then I wandered in the Research Diving Course at Cal, were I learned a great deal. But where any of the staff certified diving instructors? Only one, the DSO and I never worked with him. Everything else the I did at Cal, my progression up to a 130 foot card, was all in a mentoring circumstance.
This is where your own experience departs from the reality of almost everybody else on the Board, Thal. How many of us do you think have been privileged to do a research diving course at place like Cal? When I was a kid, I didn't even know such a thing existed. Of course in the context of your life and experience, certified recreational scuba instructors mean almost nothing. However, it doesn't mean you should go around deriding us, belittling what we do and making a case for people to seek out mentors rather than instructors.
A few years after that I attended a two week IQC/ITC run by Lee Somers at U Mich. Once again, did I learn anything new about diving? No.
An ITC/IQC is not designed to teach you anything about diving. You should be proficient before enrolling, which
you were.
Did I learn anything new about instructing diving? No.
That doesn't reflect very well on the Course Director/Instuctor Trainer.
I learned a bit about NAUI and PADI, that was about it, but I did connect with an important mentor for the rest of my days ... Lee.
Who by your own account was a fantastic
mentor and a not very good
instructor trainer.
Everything else that I've ever done, NAUI O2 Instructor, DAN O2 Instructor, Gas Blender, Chamber Operator, Mixed Gas Diving, Surface Supplied Diving, Saturation Diving, Rebreathers, DPVs, Submersibles, etc., all of that has been with a mentor model rather than in a classroom situation.
How do you become a DAN O2 Instructor without going through instructor training?
Sometime some wrote a card, sometime not; but I think it is safe to say that, basically, over the years I've not learned anything in a formal class conducted by a certified diving instructor.
The fact that you already knew, as did I, most of what they were teaching you, doesn't make their work useless. You're talking about students who have had a previous exposure to all the topics covered, have a wealth of dive experience and are also self learners. I don't pretend to be in your league, Thal, but almost everything I know, I learned reading a book or just doing it. On the other hand I've had instructors who taught me important things. Did they mentor me? Some did and some, to the contrary, would have gained great satisfaction if they'd seen me drop out or give up.
I have learned lots about diving from a series of very capable mentors, some of whom also held instructor credentials (secondary to what they really did in life), some of whom did not, none of whom were what would call "Professional Diving Instructors."
OK. So we have some experiences in common and some totally different. It still doesn't hold up an argument for eliminating instructors in favor of
friendly waving mentors.
As far as getting a "professional" qualification, frankly that has nothing to do with your qualifications or your ability
That simply isn't true, I'm sorry. I didn't think very much of most of the people who did the IE with me but the point is that however superior I may have felt towards those people, they did it and got ther card. Frankly, it was a humbling experience.
No it isn't. There is an independent impartial exam and the candidate has already done DM and an IDC.
its just an entry credential that permits one to work in a dive operation for way less than they're worth.
Are you saying that recreational scuba instructors are underpaid or have I misunderstood you?
If someone wants to have fun ... I suggest that they keep their day job and mentor on the side.
You're assuming that we are all capable of doing something else than instructing and that we instruct only for fun... what's wrong with being a professional scuba instructor?