The "Official" SB Scuba Course?

[DCBC]

Not everything boils down to a simple formula of incompetent instructors and evil agencies.

Of course not. The OP obviously has some concerns about the level of training given.

You've agreed that "It's possible that too little training is worse than no training at all...." and "I know of at least one shop that was shut down because of accidents they were having." Obviously there is concern about how some training is being presented.

You mention that "To a shop, a training course is a product that they sell for profit. If a business isn't trying to make money there's something very wrong. The *good* ones will strike a nice sweet balance between price and quality and customers will leave happy and come back." Unfortunately, they're not all good. Profit often outweighs "the balance." That is a concern that is shared by many of us.

 

[elmer fudd]

The overriding problem with this whole discussion is that people are cheap and the vast majority of them will look for the cheapest and fastest way to get into the water. You could make a great class, but if it costs $2000 and takes 2 months, then virtually no one will take it.

UNLESS...

You make it a college course. Diving 101. Teach it at 4 year and community colleges and make it last a full quarter. Give the students credit towards graduation in programs like marine biology. Make it a requirement for new police and firefighters who are members of dive teams.

The colleges already have pools, so the students could get plenty of pool time. Plus, the students could be held to a real academic standard.

By the time a student had finished a 3 credit diving course, they'd have done the equivalent of BOW, AOW, RD, Nitrox, etc...

 

[DCBC]

The overriding problem with this whole discussion is that people are cheap and the vast majority of them will look for the cheapest and fastest way to get into the water. You could make a great class, but if it costs $2000 and takes 2 months, then virtually no one will take it. UNLESS... You make it a college course.

I don't know about that. My courses are 50 hours and cost $500 (when I'm not teaching for free within a Club). I've not been able to get as many students as local dive shops, largely because they run theirs at twice the speed. I haven't however had any trouble getting students.

You make a good point about the colleges. I've taught Commercial Diving in Community Colleges, but perhaps there may be some interest within the Universities for something like you're suggesting. Thal teaches diving research, perhaps a program similar.

 

[elmer fudd]

I'd think there'd be a huge interest, particularly if they got college credit. College students are already paying tuition and are used to the idea of classes lasting longer than a weekend. If there's both a fun and practical college class being offered that mom and dad or Uncle Sam can pay for then there will be plenty of students.

But the main thing about it is that in a college structure you could eliminate the incentive to churn out barely trained divers as quickly as possible.

Speaking of which, you ever notice that no one ever seems to fail a PADI class? If you show up, fill out the worksheets and don't have a serious accident, you're pretty much guaranteed to pass.

 

[Diver0001]

... Obviously there is concern about how some training is being presented.

... Unfortunately, they're [shops] not all good. Profit often outweighs "the balance." That is a concern that is shared by many of us.

Yep. There are no easy answers to some of these issues in the real world. I just get tired of hearing things like "These Instructors point to the statistics that are available and say see, this proves that we're not acting irresponsibly at all"

Yes, shops that consistently perform below par should be held accountable.

Yes, instuctors who do not conform to standards must be held responsible.

Do these things happen enough? Probably not... but I do get tired of people insisting that it's all the instructors' fault.

People take courses to *learn*. Sometimes they appear to learn but still do stupid things despite their training..... If you ask me, the student has a certain level of personal responsibility in all of this too..... and, frankly, sometimes, regardless of how good the training was, and how hard everyone tries and how well the diver follows the rules they were taught.... **** just happens.

It's evidently easy for some people to blame instructors for everything, but in my humble opinion, that's a narrow, cynical and stupefyingly shortsighted view of the world. Your milage obviously varies but it's starting to rub me the wrong way.

R..

 

[kjack_1]

I don't know about that. My courses are 50 hours and cost $500 (when I'm not teaching for free within a Club). I've not been able to get as many students as local dive shops, largely because they run theirs at twice the speed. I haven't however had any trouble getting students.

You make a good point about the colleges. I've taught Commercial Diving in Community Colleges, but perhaps there may be some interest within the Universities for something like you're suggesting. Thal teaches diving research, perhaps a program similar.

50 hours!!! My gawd, you must be crazy, man. :sarcasm:

Some of our local colleges already teach the diving 101. It counts as college credits and fulfills part of the physical education requirements. Hummmm, +/- $400 per semester hour....works out to be a bit more than what you charge.

K

 

[DCBC]

Your milage obviously varies but it's starting to rub me the wrong way.

This is a discussion board; I'm free to express my opinion as much as you or anyone else. If you disagree, it's something that we both have to accept, regardless of which way it rubs either of us.

 

[DCBC]

50 hours!!! My gawd, you must be crazy, man. :sarcasm:

Some of our local colleges already teach the diving 101. It counts as college credits and fulfills part of the physical education requirements. Hummmm, +/- $400 per semester hour....works out to be a bit more than what you charge.

Hi K,

Yes I'm kinda getting use to being called crazy and some other names as well. I guess it goes with the territory; I don't always see things the same way as others.

 

[Diver0001]

This is a discussion board; I'm free to express my opinion as much as you or anyone else. If you disagree, it's something that we both have to accept, regardless of which way it rubs either of us.

Of course. I don't expect to agree with everyone and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me.

Oh, and speaking of opinions. The ones with the biggest ... "opinions" ... aren't always right.

R..

 

[kjack_1]

I'd think there'd be a huge interest, particularly if they got college credit. College students are already paying tuition and are used to the idea of classes lasting longer than a weekend. If there's both a fun and practical college class being offered that mom and dad or Uncle Sam can pay for then there will be plenty of students.

But the main thing about it is that in a college structure you could eliminate the incentive to churn out barely trained divers as quickly as possible.

Speaking of which, you ever notice that no one ever seems to fail a PADI class? If you show up, fill out the worksheets and don't have a serious accident, you're pretty much guaranteed to pass.

Two years ago, one of our LDS ran a radio ad for about three weeks. Come dive with us, you'll be certified in no time, it doesn't cost much, and "no one fails." There was a catch to it of course, but natch, they didn't cover that part in the ad. But the ad was pretty strong - pretty creative. And, it was not a PADI shop.