Why do we bash each other?

[adurso]

This sums it up:
(apologies for the scatological reference)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I've met Bob in the parking lot once. He's a lot like he is on the board: big toothy grin, pointy nose, beady little eyes.

I've met a few people in person who have known me only from the internet. Usually the first thing I need to tell them when we meet is: "I know; I seem a LOT taller on the internet".

 

[The Chairman]

Sorry Otter, but that doesn't work.

Sure it does. Look how on-topic we have remained in this thread. There has even been sharp disagreement, and yet there have been no unsubstantiated accusations and no real outbursts of anger. It's been a great thread.

Conversations flow, often responding to the original post no longer makes sense, but responding to a later post does.

That's not what otterdive is referring to. Take the ever present issue of BP&Wings. Do they have to be the logical conclusion to EVERY thread about BCDs? Does everyone who uses a back inflate (or other) BC do so ONLY because they have yet to try a BP&Wing? That is essentially what many erroneously suggest.

Also when responding to the original post in a helpful, polite manner, it is still possible for others to think you are bashing because you do not have the same opinion of the value of something that they have.

It mostly depends on how you express that "value". Calling something a piece of s***, while it may indeed be your opinion, is inflammatory no matter how you may want to couch it. I am not suggesting that you have posted this, but certainly there is no need to excuse cretinous behavior due to it's perceived honesty. You can be honest without succumbing to being brutal as well.

Most of us have a preconceived notion of how we post that is quite often far from being realistic. Our most salient points are lost on others, not because they don't exist but more often because we have chosen a less than effective way of conveying them. As otterdive suggested, if people are consistently pointing out that you are bashing, offensive, irascible, bombastic or otherwise, then quite possibly you are, even if you can't (or won't) see it. Suggesting that they merely disagree and are taking it personally takes the focus off of the real problem: how we communicate.

Now these comments are not directed at Walter, though they do address a number of issues that he raised. These comments are for all of us to consider: especially me. Just as we grow in our diving skills, it is a good thing to grow in our communication skills.

 

[Hoomi]

I've met a few people in person who have known me only from the internet. Usually the first thing I need to tell them when we meet is: "I know; I seem a LOT taller on the internet".

Being serious here (rather than the silly way I first responded on this topic), I personally think it's a good idea to remember that we never know when we might meet someone from a forum in real life. I used to hang around on the Bicycling forums (until they turned into troll central), and I was surprised on several occasions when other folks from the forums recognized me out on a ride. I would have hated to meet someone and have to deal with animosity because I'd been a jerk to them on the forums.

On the flip side, we had someone who took being nasty to the extreme. He would regularly change log-in nicknames, pose as a newbie with lots of questions (what gave him away was it was always the same questions), and then start getting argumentative with the answers. When it reached the point that he e-mailed a very nasty, threatening message (included a death threat) to one of the forum regulars, one of the IT types spent some time backtracking his messages. The IT guy found that this man was posting this stuff and sending his nasty e-mails from his work computer. Supervision at the work place was notified this was happening, and the man was given fair warning that he needed to stop this stuff. Rather than stop, he blamed the woman he had threatened and the IT guy, with a peripheral blame to the other forum regulars, and posted even worse stuff - still from his work computer! He ended up losing his job over this, and there were rumors his marriage suffered from this also (I can understand this, as if I had sent a message to any woman stating that I think she deserved to be raped, my wife would have a serious problem with that).

We're not always as anonymous or untouchable on the internet as we'd like to think, and we really should behave accordingly.

 

[The Chairman]

We're not always as anonymous or untouchable on the internet as we'd like to think, and we really should behave accordingly.

This is so very true. Fortunately, these kind of remedies are reserved for only the most disgusting trolls.

Lest there be any misunderstanding: physical threats, real or implied result in immediate and permanent suspension of your user account. In that event we will use any and all means neccesary to keep you off of ScubaBoard, including legal avenues. If you feel you have been unjustly banned or singled out by a moderator, please contact abuse@ScubaBoard.com. No one gets these e-mails but me. Unfortunately, if you have a problem with me, there is no one higher. In any event, I am the ONLY one on ScubaBoard you are free to "bash". I refuse to take any punitive action and my staff has been explicitly instructed not to censor any post critical of me, nor are they to harass the poster. Of course, there are limits to this, but no one has exceeded them yet.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It mostly depends on how you express that "value". Calling something a piece of s***, while it may indeed be your opinion, is inflammatory no matter how you may want to couch it. I am not suggesting that you have posted this, but certainly there is no need to excuse cretinous behavior due to it's perceived honesty. You can be honest without succumbing to being brutal as well.

You mean like this?

A top school wouldn't have a zero to hero program.

 

[GeorgeC]

Based on the collective posts we can gather the following advice. If you are going to post, post in such a manner as if the diver was sitting next to you face to face on the dive boat, classroom, dive shop etc. Oh and by the way the person you are speaking to is 6’7” and just won a golden gloves trophy

I tried to determine if there were many bashing posts on the instructor to instructor forum. Hard to determine as there are so many more posts in the general area. My gut feeling from reading a small sample size that basing occurs less often. Other instructors please chime in!

Instructors are critical of one another and present arguments in a manner that comes across as a good debate. What can we take away from this? We have to be instructors to get in so there is a velvet rope we must cross; a more secluded place. All members are of professional level certification going through similar pain to get to this level. Are we more courteous because of it? I think so. Similar to the blue wall of salience you will find in police departments.

If we simply agree we are all in this to better our sport and part of a unique group that wants to visit the underworld secluded from others who do not our world we will be much better off as a group!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

opps, wrong thread!

 

[The Chairman]

You mean like this?

No. Walter has expressed an opinion about what he feels a "top school" should or should not offer. While I see no compelling reason (possibly due to creative quoting) and I certainly don't agree with him, I don't see an attack on the school or an erroneous appeal as to their motive.

However, stating that they only do this out of a desire to bilk others of their hard earned cash, a desire to take over the world, or similar unsubstantiated statement of motive(s), would easily turn that comment that from benign to inflammatory.

Personally, I could never teach a Scuba Class in the slow, pedantic methodology utilized by Walter and others here on ScubaBoard. What they see as "thorough", I avoid as being antiquated and boring. My class is far more focused at a much quicker pace with efficiency both in my instruction as well as in their diving as the unifying mantra. In my mind, I produce a better diver and someone who has learned how to learn on their own. In the past, I have used the word "elitist" to describe their methodology which, while it conveyed my honest opinion, actually offended Walter and others. Rather than push my point ad nauseum, I now refrain from using that invective. It's simply not fair for me to continue to portray them in a way that is hurtful and that will actually impede communication. While I once felt that this was OK as it was in response to their bashing of other programs, I have since come to the conclusion that it is counterproductive. Someone has to give first: I chose me.

I have said this a few times in a couple of ways, but it bears repeating:

It's OK to be honest, but it's not OK to be brutally honest.

Be nice. It does you no harm, and it helps people to understand your point of view rather than be sidetracked in trying to one up your snide remarks. Nice is the best way to handle disagreements. This doesn't mean that you should not defend a friend. I have had certain posters get upset with me for pointing out their undeserved snarkiness towards others. They even claim that it "prolongs" the drama. Well, each of us has certain areas we need to work on. Me? I am loyal to a fault. Attack one of my peeps and you can be sure that I will be there defending them. It's a weakness, but one that I am willing to live with. Walter and I have been at loggerheads over many picayune issues, but I am certain that he has no question about my loyalty. It's my strength and weakness all rolled up together.
​

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

No. Walter has expressed an opinion about what he feels a "top school" should or should not offer. While I see no compelling reason (possibly due to creative quoting) and I certainly don't agree with him, I don't see an attack on the school or an erroneous appeal as to their motive.

The thread title was/is "Zero to Hero - Top Schools?" In New Divers / Considering Diving. That was his entire post; no creative quoting. Pretty much the reason for my first post in this thread.

Most of the bashing of members by members is, IMHO, due to a lack of typing eloquence and grammatical correctness. Some members seem to take the opinion that everything they type is an opinion so they NEVER type IMHO. Unfortunately, they then come off as an absolute authoritarian, and how many of us will put up with that (even in real life).