Why do we bash each other?

[Mike Boswell]

That is a good reason for arguing, but not for bashing.

A good, productive argument leads to consensus and improvement, if not the outright truth. Bashing leads to entrenchment; it is the opposite of productivity. Look at what happened when men in the new field of astronomy argued about what they saw through their telescopes with a church who was more in a bashing mood than a passionate argument mood.

A number of years ago I was in a argument with someone about something, and I prepared a Socratic type argument that I thought would lead him to see my point clearly. I could not make that argument, though, because he kept interrupting me, cutting off my sentences. The argument went nowhere that way.

Some time after that I told him how frustrated I was that when we argued, he kept cutting me off. He said that was his strategy. When he saw that his opponent was about to make a winning point, he cut him off to prevent that point being made. In other words, he knew he was about to be defeated by facts and logic, so he knew he needed to resort to bullying to win the argument. To him, the point of an argument was to have his initial position prevail; to me the point of the argument was to arrive at the truth, regardless of initial positions.

His strategy is the essence of bashing. In doing so we demonize the oppositon and cut off meaningful and productive debate.

I agree with you. I may have given the impression that I condone bashing. I don't, but I do try to understand it for what it is and where it comes from.

The pressures driving human advancement result in stresses which can be highly devisive and destructive, and most groups of people, however talented they may be, will tend to mill about uselessly until a leader emerges with a plan.

Bashing and most other unproductive activities are symptoms of a dysfunctional group dynamic, which is generally the result of ineffective leadership. This is why we put such a high premium on good leadership.

It's relatively easy to lead people who work for you, or who fear you, or who admire you. But the internet presents humanity with a new challenge: How do you "lead" a vast group of largely anonymous individuals over whom you have very little influence or control? I believe that this issue will test the very concepts of leadership.

 

[GeorgeC]

Who gives a rat's patoot what some faceless, nameless, stranger has to say or how they say it....

Adurso, the person who has just jointed the board after leaving his/her first open water class or pool session. This is the person who might care what a person may say on this board and be intimidated by someone showing 1,000 posts and 1,000 dives.

This is actually a superb point.

I have had a number of threads over my tenure on SB, where someone decided to take me to task about something in a very tactless way. I read those posts and decide whether there is anything in the SUBSTANCE of the posts that's worth taking up. If not, I ignore them. That way I never get baited into a personal argument. Some of the people who have written those sorts of things have subsequently written to me to apologize. I don't think they would have done that had I waded into the discussion with both feet.

TSandM I commend you for taking the higher road. Not too many people are strong enough to hold back and ignore! Or did you kill them with kindness causing them to rethink and apologize?

.......It's relatively easy to lead people who work for you, or who fear you, or who admire you. But the internet presents humanity with a new challenge: How do you "lead" a vast group of largely anonymous individuals over whom you have very little influence or control? I believe that this issue will test the very concepts of leadership.

Mike good point. Why do we have to lead or have a leader on the post? Are we that unfulfilled in life that we need to lead on a message board to fill a void in our everyday lives or is this just human nature to lead no matter what are the circumstances.

 

[highdesert]

If I am faced with writing a long letter of complaint to someone or some company, I have tried to make it a point to type it as a draft, re-read it after a break away from the computer, and see if I am making my point without pis$ing off the recipient, which is to my disadvantage.

Since my typing sucks, I also re-read my SB posts before and immediately after posting. This helps me to clean up my spelling, typos, and grammar, and also allows me to edit for clarity and intent. I don't always do this well, but if I do it regularly, it allows me to at least temper or re-phrase my post. I don't feel I'm "there" yet, but if I refrain from firing off a reactionary post, it's an improvement for me.

So my point ... if we at the very least read through our posts, where they may be the part of a thread that involves issues of opinion, before posting them, we might catch and eliminate some needlessly contentious language.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I have thrown out opions that are out there, that take awhile for some to take in, and most never understand, and others comment a few times that I am on drugs. To give an opinion on some topics you need to take everyones view and blend it. Lamonts 99% theory is when I will through one out for the underdog, I have been in alot of perdiciments and can not even tell you how many times I damn near died underwater. Every one has there opinion, sometimes have a hard time expressing it on the keyboard. the things you rember most is when you are in a stressful situation.

I am here to say that I am not as sharp, as I was less than six months ago. Life experiences give you a whole entirely different look, so when these threads get going, and the post start getting out of hand, yea I throw a twist in there. I enjoy it to, as to see what others have to say or learn.

But now I have to wonder, if my life would still be the same, If I did not read all these twisted threads. I use the board for travel, equipment, and new trends of diving. and have got pulled in to some of the debates. as of aug 2, I have been alone, well me and the bottle, and the sea has been diminishing. Plus the fact that I had to go back to work in october, seems the bank wants you to have a job to have a mortgage. Yes I am humane and so are all of you, now I can say I went for many years without one problem, and now they have compounded.

The bashing is a life experience of knowledge, no matter who is bashing they have a reason for it. To start other opions, or cut down opions. I usually get involved in the deep air ones, now there have been great divers made fame by it, yet JC did a dive to the brittanic on a double hose, wich is deeper than the dorea. we are not familiar with the vintage divers and there ways, not to mention there teaching techniques. What we have here is a question and answer board, with a google amount of members with there life experience answers.

This is an entertainment, educational, system that you get addicticted to. I remember one member asked where is almighty wife, and there are a few others that have faded. I know that my life has changed for the worse, and I hope that I can keep diving in my life, yet I do not let members of the board get to me, like I have gotta say some, like to have these debates.

Happy Diving

 

[InTheDrink]

People are too god damned soft.

A spirited debate with a little rough play is not a bad thing. Getting shouted down once in a while can help you be less of a **** up. Hasn't worked for me so far but I'm working on it ;-)

My only exception to this is new divers who are just learning the ropes so bawling them out isn't likely to be constructive.

Dive happy,
J

 

[divad]

I have been a member of SCUBA board for quite some time now. I understand there is no “right” way to do everything here or underwater. We all have a set of guidelines/standards we follow from the various training agencies. Divers feel comfortable and adopt equipment, techniques and practices that suit their needs and style of diving. I am not posting to pick the differences nor debate what one agency has over another….that is not what this post is about.

We all benefit as a group from these differences as we share information with one another. New divers are given the forum to ask questions and get advice on options where they can gain a better understanding of how things work. Or, give them the necessary background information to ask more specific and educated questions to create a more succinct dialog with their LDS.

Experienced divers are given the opportunity to share a wealth of information and find ways to improve their knowledge and see another side to the way they dive, set up equipment and etc. All in all we utilize the Internet to broaden our knowledge and to speak to someone half way around the world as if they are sitting on the couch next to us or on the dive boat across from us.

Here is the question..Why in the world from time to time, more frequent than less, do we bash the crap out of each other with crass remarks and holier than thou attitudes, making fun of one another and exclaiming this is the only and right way to do things? I wonder if we were on a dive boat would we say the same thing?
Or, would you politely voice concerns or remarks? What about if we were in our LDS answering questions or training a diver? How would we act? I think it is too easy to conduct ourselves in a less than human way hiding behind the tool that gives us the freedom to learn from one another. I realize we are allowed and encouraged to speak our minds. However, would we have the nerve to speak our minds negatively if were face to face.

I wonder how many divers are afraid to post because of the fear of being bashed and just lurk. Too bad we don’t have a Un-Thank you rating to classify those posters who consistently are sarcastic so we would know what to expect just by looking at there profile.

Your question has nothing to do with scuba diving, per se, and has been fairly succinctly addressed in "Civilization and Its Discontents" a long time ago, as refered to in post #17.

 

[adurso]

Adurso, the person who has just jointed the board after leaving his/her first open water class or pool session. This is the person who might care what a person may say on this board and be intimidated by someone showing 1,000 posts and 1,000 dives.

.

TS got my point; allow me to clarify: the response one makes often fuels the conflagration. As TS mentioned, ignoring the garbage contributes to one's rest.

To further clarify; people bash because they can. The witless scribble of some World of Warcraft loving living in his mother's basement weenie should in no wise impact the participation of another on an internet message board.

There are those who will bully in person, and there are those who will bully in writing, and those who will bully over the telephone (they end up as bill collectors)

They only have the power that others allow; by not giving that power they revert to the anonymous trolls they are.....

 

[krawlings]

This poster has said "Un-Thank You" to GeorgeC for this un-useful post.

This is the piont he was trying to get across was this comment realy necessary?I like to post so I can learn, not be bashed for what I don't know.Or the mis undersanding of the knowledge I have . None of us know avery thing

 

[divad]

This is the piont he was trying to get across was this comment realy necessary?I like to post so I can lean not be bashed for what I don't know.Or the mis undersanding of the knolage I have . None of us know avery thing

Read the whole thing...............................tomorrow.

 

[GeorgeC]

Your question has nothing to do with scuba diving, per se, and has been fairly succinctly addressed in "Civilization and Its Discontents" a long time ago, as refered to in post #17.

Evad,

The thread is not SCUBA related, per se. However, the thread is the backbone of the way we disseminate information on the board. If we took bashing to the Nth degree we would not have a SCUBA board. If you are not interested in the thread why post this above? Why not ignore and move on?