Why do we bash each other?

[MXGratefulDiver]

The second example I'd like to share is NWGratefulDivers response to my issue about his statement about folks having limited perspective. He responded "Just curious if you read the rest of what I wrote ... and if so, does the context have anything to do with the meaning of the one sentence you decided to take issue with?"

Are you really questioning if I bothered to read your well thought out arguments or are you trying to insinuate that I'm taking things out of context? Yes, I obviously read your entire post. I had numerous issues with it, but rather than turning it into a critical analysis, I decided to focus on what you suggested was your conclusion, which you began with "So I guess my point is...". Bob, you made your point, summed it up and I responded with what I hoped would be a well thought out response. What I got back was a defensive response claiming that I took one sentence out of context and that I turned it into what I wanted it to say. Again, we go back to tone. I took your conclusion and responded to it, yet I'm twisting what you said? The tone comes across as defensive and, by questioning if I spent time considering what you said, condescending.

Not at all ... I simply felt that you missed my point.

I was taking the perception of bashing on ScubaBoard as a given ... of course it exists, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. I was futher trying to explain WHY I felt the perception exists, and what we can each do to reduce its effect.

You took issue with a statement that ... when read out of the context of the rest of my post ... implied that I felt the perception didn't exist.

Those are two entirely different issues ... the former is what I said, while the latter is not.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Funny story. I was relaying a story on SB about a grumpy diver I ran into at Cocoview, and it turned out to be someone responding in that thread. :shocked2: Now that was embarrassing, but he acknowledged himself and didn't hold it against me.

... and we've been friends ever since ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

On the old "does this dress make my butt look big?" question, it should be remembered that honestly doesn't necessarily preclude tact. We can be honest while still being sensitive to the feelings of others.

Yes, it might be completely honest to say, "that butt would still look huge in a circus tent," but it can be just as honest (and safer for long-term relationships) to say something more along the lines of, "it really isn't the most flattering fashion for your figure."

Do we prefer to have someone slam their different viewpoint into our faces with all the subtlety of a trainwreck? Or would we rather have someone express their side of the discussion with respect and tact?

Heaven help us if the only way we can see another opinion is if it is delivered with a battering ram!

I tried tact with my wife ... I said "No hon ... of course those jeans don't make you look fat. Because you're NOT fat. A little wide, maybe ... but definitely not fat."

She divorced me ... :depressed:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nylorac]

Yes, a statement of opinion is a statement of opinion, regardless of how it is stated. Whether or not you say "I believe" or something to that effect makes no real difference. Unfortunately, it is not all that easy.

First of all, many people do not realize that a strongly held opinion is still an opinion.

Many thanks John. Most of us are just giving an opinion (or looking for one - or many - its why this forum is so helpful) except for those few who know it all....then its just a fact in thier own opinion.

 

[Nylorac]

I don't know if this needs to be in W&C....In the end, we are all divers. We all share a wonderful thing that not very many people ever get to do -- we get to see the whole world that stretches off the coasts, and under the lakes, and in the quarries, and in the caves. It makes us far more alike than different.

We all share a wonderful thing that not many ever get to do - so simple and so true. Thanks.

 

[mafiajoe]

The Mafia does not like talkers!

:gun:

 

[Walter]

First of all, many people do not realize that a strongly held opinion is still an opinion.

So I've come to understand and I will try to compensate in future posts.

 

[GeorgeC]

I believe in feeding the troll. It eventually implodes.

Originally Posted by GeorgeC
Evad,
The thread is not SCUBA related, per se. However, the thread is the backbone of the way we disseminate information on the board.

What does this mean?

Evad,
This thread is not about SCUBA, per say… (We are not talking about regs, profiles, BC’s etc.)

..the thread is the backbone of the way we disseminate information on the board.
(This thread is about the basis of how we provide/give/communicate information strictly related to SCUBA)

I don’t know where you are going with this question and don't know if you are following your own advice about feeding the troll.

 

[lulubelle]

WOW, you guys were busy over the Holiday. :shocked2:

Here is the question..Why in the world from time to time, more frequent than less, do we bash the crap out of each other with crass remarks and holier than thou attitudes, making fun of one another and exclaiming this is the only and right way to do things? I wonder if we were on a dive boat would we say the same thing?
Or, would you politely voice concerns or remarks? What about if we were in our LDS answering questions or training a diver? How would we act? I think it is too easy to conduct ourselves in a less than human way hiding behind the tool that gives us the freedom to learn from one another. I realize we are allowed and encouraged to speak our minds. However, would we have the nerve to speak our minds negatively if were face to face.

I lurked for nearly two years before joining SB, in large part because of what I had heard about the membership's propensity for bashing people with divergent opinions. My experience here is that the mods do a great job of not letting threads spin out of control and that the report buttons get a prompt response. In general, I choose not to engage with people who bash others other than to clearly state my opposing opinion to something I believe to be damaging rhetoric. But I know when to walk away and do. No need to feed the trolls.

What is more scary, wait until you meet some of these folks in the real world. I am convinced that part of the collapse of American society comes from the ceaseless chatter on the internet, and my observations that folks no longer feel the need to be civil to each other.

I agree that there is often a real disconnect between someone's internet personality and their real world personality. It seems to me that the internet is a breeding ground for any existing psychopathology in an individual. I have met some individuals who were perfectly decent in person and who became entirely different and frightening people in the context of the internet. The internet became their "mask" for some aspect of their personality that they could not express face to face or even in a live conversation. I'm sure the opposite can also be true.

We're not always as anonymous or untouchable on the internet as we'd like to think, and we really should behave accordingly.

It baffles me that people often don't understand that they are creating a permanent record when they post on the internet, arguably more "touchable" than a live conversation between two people which occurs without any witnesses. And how hard is it to determine the origin of an IP address or computer? Not very hard at all.

Too often those who abuse people on the Internet just don't see it as such. They hide behind their concept of being brutally honest, but it's obvious to most that they are merely in love with being brutal.

There will always be an element like this in any internet environment. Poor communication skills get even worse in an environment that shields the individual from perceived accountability. This is a very sad way to live, IMHO. Thanks for keeping the environment here civil and all inclusive.

 

[dave4868]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC
Evad,
The thread is not SCUBA related, per se. However, the thread is the backbone of the way we disseminate information on the board.

Evad,
This thread is not about SCUBA, per say… (We are not talking about regs, profiles, BC’s etc.)

..the thread is the backbone of the way we disseminate information on the board. (This thread is about the basis of how we provide/give/communicate information strictly related to SCUBA)

I don’t know where you are going with this question and don't know if you are following your own advice about feeding the troll.

Original posting of this thread:

Here is the question..Why in the world from time to time, more frequent than less, do we bash the crap out of each other with crass remarks and holier than thou attitudes, making fun of one another and exclaiming this is the only and right way to do things? I wonder if we were on a dive boat would we say the same thing?

George, thanks for starting this thread! It's turned out to be quite constructive, after all, with lots of practical suggestions how to deal with posts that attack personally or are otherwise non-constructive. It's been a good focus on how to get back to disseminating information (or ideas), which is one of the main reasons many of us are here, IMHO.

However, I initially had a concern that your original post appeared to imply that bashing is prevalent on ScubaBoard ("more frequent than less").

To the contrary, I think the vast majority of topics elicit minimal bashing, if any at all, and that bashing is not prevalent on ScubaBoard. I agree with others that a few topics bring out a great deal of bashing, but it's relatively rare compared to other boards, thanks to the cultural standards created by the moderating of ScubaBoard. :worship:

Too often those who abuse people on the Internet just don't see it as such. They hide behind their concept of being brutally honest, but it's obvious to most that they are merely in love with being brutal.

This is the core issue. People who bash or try to diminish others really can't make a good argument that it's primarily intended to be helpful, since other approaches are often much more "helpful". The primary motivations, rather than trying to be helpful, often seem more self-serving and/or destructive....

I lurked for nearly two years before joining SB, in large part because of what I had heard about the membership's propensity for bashing people with divergent opinions. My experience here is that the mods do a great job of not letting threads spin out of control and that the report buttons get a prompt response. In general, I choose not to engage with people who bash others other than to clearly state my opposing opinion to something I believe to be damaging rhetoric. But I know when to walk away and do. No need to feed the trolls.

I agree that there is often a real disconnect between someone's internet personality and their real world personality. It seems to me that the internet is a breeding ground for any existing psychopathology in an individual. I have met some individuals who were perfectly decent in person and who became entirely different and frightening people in the context of the internet. The internet became their "mask" for some aspect of their personality that they could not express face to face or even in a live conversation. I'm sure the opposite can also be true.

>>>Snipped a bit<<<

There will always be an element like this in any internet environment. Poor communication skills get even worse in an environment that shields the individual from perceived accountability. This is a very sad way to live, IMHO. Thanks for keeping the environment here civil and all inclusive.

I don't have much to add to the good observations and good advice already given, but I agree wholeheartedly that many of these bashing comments stem from personality conflicts and it's best to just ignore them.

There's the old truism that when someone tries to hand you the end of a "tug-of-war" rope, you don't have to take it....

On the other hand.... ....when combativeness and/or arrogance get too excruciatingly annoying to just ignore, I find it's sometimes worth the effort to carefully and tactfully re-frame the issues and objectively ask for examples, clarification or citations of references.

Even if that doesn't move the discussion away from the personal attacks or the "tug-of-war" and back to being objective and constructive, at least it may expose what the bashing was really about.... a personality issue!

Dave C