The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Thalassamania]

More rationally, take the current O/W standards and remove the idea that those completing such a course are ready to dive independently, then let a local specialty, Advanced, and/or rescue qualify them for independent diving.

 

[Crush]

Should there be an 'adverse conditions' specialty of some sort, focused on rough shore entries with poor vis. in the shallows due to sandy turbulence, sites strongly impacted by tides and such?

This would not obstruct people from getting their OW cert. & C card & being able to get tanks fills and such, and dive in good conditions, yet would offer a clear path to further training to handle adverse conditions local to some areas?

drrich2, I think that you have hit upon the crux of the debate.

I am new to diving. When I asked some old timers how they learned to ice dive, they told me that they put on their gear and walked onto the ice surface until the fell through. When I asked them how they learned to dive a drysuit, they told me that they put one on and went into shallow water to play around with it. How did they learn to night dive? They bought flashlights. Deep dives? In increments, with a buddy. I do not wish this to be taken to the extreme, such as suggesting that 300 feet of bakery string qualifies you to cave dive, but the point is that the old timers were taught to be well-rounded divers who could venture forth and continue to learn on their own. It appears to me that some aspects of that "universal" training have been lost. This thread is focusing on the how, why, and what (if anything) need/can be done.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

By comparison, I perceive a level of scorn directed to reliance on dive masters on tropical dive boat excursions (at least, that's the sense I get from terms like 'baby sitters' and 'vacation divers'), yet there is a specialty certification in Navigation for people who wish to pursue that & improve their independence.

I think the scorn is directed less at reliance on DMs by some divers as at policies that require DMs to treat all divers as though they are incompetent.

My trip to Roatan was a perfect example ... before I could go diving I was required to perform a mask flood and clear in front of a DM ... and when I did the exercise while hovering six inches off the bottom in three feet of water he made me do it over ... WHILE KNEELING ... so he could assure himself that I was "properly weighted".

That kind of silliness is worthy of scorn. But not at the DM ... he's just doing his job. The problem is that the dumbing down of educational standards has led to policies that are based on the assumption that EVERYBODY is incompetent, and results in a level of stupidity in dealing with diving clientele that could only be exceeded if the government were to start writing regulations for the industry.

In an ideal world the assumption would be that if you are certified to dive, you are qualified to dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

Should there be an 'adverse conditions' specialty of some sort, focused on rough shore entries with poor vis. in the shallows due to sandy turbulence, sites strongly impacted by tides and such?

This would not obstruct people from getting their OW cert. & C card & being able to get tanks fills and such, and dive in good conditions, yet would offer a clear path to further training to handle adverse conditions local to some areas?

By comparison, I perceive a level of scorn directed to reliance on dive masters on tropical dive boat excursions (at least, that's the sense I get from terms like 'baby sitters' and 'vacation divers'), yet there is a specialty certification in Navigation for people who wish to pursue that & improve their independence.

Seems that approach could be used more broadly.

Richard.

P.S.: Apologies in advance if I've recycled ideas already voiced; I've been checking this thread off & on over time, but at 118 pages, no way do I recall it all!

Thanks Richard. I never thought about that possibility but in thinking about it, I don't think a specialty would be sufficient. With some agencies, the in-water assessment is so low that the diver doesn't even have to be able to swim! I don't think a traditional "specialty" type course would properly prepare a non-swimmer for heavy surf, current, high tidal exchange, poor visibility and 33 degree water temperature.

Perhaps if a set of modules were made to put together the diver program which could collectively address local conditions. Perhaps along the lines of:

AD- Advanced
OW- Openwater
A- Altitude Diving
C- Current
L- Low water temperature (60 degrees or less)
S- Surf
T- Tidal Considerations
Others....

OWA, ADCLT, etc. Each would require satisfactory completion of a standardized training module that may include: classroom, pool and openwater work. They could be placed together in the training program to achieve the necessary goal.

This would identify the type of conditions in-which the diver was suitably prepared to dive in. It would provide an indicator to dive charter operators; which would be beneficial in identifying suitably qualified divers for various conditions. Just an idea...

 

[Thalassamania]

drrich2, I think that you have hit upon the crux of the debate.

I am new to diving. When I asked some old timers how they learned to ice dive, they told me that they put on their gear and walked onto the ice surface until the fell through. When I asked them how they learned to dive a drysuit, they told me that they put one on and went into shallow water to play around with it. How did they learn to night dive? They bought flashlights. Deep dives? In increments, with a buddy. I do not wish this to be taken to the extreme, such as suggesting that 300 feet of bakery string qualifies you to cave dive, but the point is that the old timers were taught to be well-rounded divers who could venture forth and continue to learn on their own. It appears to me that some aspects of that "universal" training have been lost. This thread is focusing on the how, why, and what (if anything) need/can be done.

You are spot on, what has been lost in most training programs is teaching the new diver how to learn on their own and getting them to the point that they are comfortable doing so. That is not a concept that fits into a neat module, or that feeds the con-ed mutt.

I think the scorn is directed less at reliance on DMs by some divers as at policies that require DMs to treat all divers as though they are incompetent.

My trip to Roatan was a perfect example ... before I could go diving I was required to perform a mask flood and clear in front of a DM ... and when I did the exercise while hovering six inches off the bottom in three feet of water he made me do it over ... WHILE KNEELING ... so he could assure himself that I was "properly weighted".

That kind of silliness is worthy of scorn. But not at the DM ... he's just doing his job. The problem is that the dumbing down of educational standards has led to policies that are based on the assumption that EVERYBODY is incompetent, and results in a level of stupidity in dealing with diving clientele that could only be exceeded if the government were to start writing regulations for the industry.

In an ideal world the assumption would be that if you are certified to dive, you are qualified to dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I can't blame the DM either, he's just doing his job (as you observed); but it is a telling commentary on the skill level expected of the average diver, even the average instructor today. There was a time that when an instructor card let you bypass that stuff. Here's a look at a more rational checkout system: Checkout dive at the Univ. of Puerto Rico.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I can't blame the DM either, he's just doing his job (as you observed); but it is a telling commentary on the skill level expected of the average diver, even the average instructor today. There was a time that when an instructor card let you bypass that stuff.

I pointed that out when they told me I'd miss my first day of diving because we arrived too late for that day's "checkout" dive. The resort manager informed me that there were no exceptions to the policy, no matter how experienced you were. When I found out that the "checkout dive" amounted to a portion of the first pool session of your typical OW class, I was not impressed. In fact, I was rather pissed off.

Here's a look at a more rational checkout system: Checkout dive at the Univ. of Puerto Rico.

I can appreciate that the expections of yesteryear required you to have those skills ... but I'd hardly call that a "rational" test for today's recreational diver. Once again, I don't agree with your belief that a recreational diver needs skills at the level one would expect from someone who uses diving as part of their vocation.

What I WOULD expect is that someone can hold their buoyancy without unnecessary effort ... preferably without moving at all, that they show a reasonable amount of comfort in the water, can propel themselves without waving their arms around, can perform the basic skills without touching or holding onto something, and can demonstrate a reasonable level of awareness of what's going on around them while they're diving.

What I would NOT do on a checkout dive is insist that the person do it while kneeling ... in fact, if they had to kneel down to perform any skill I'd ask them to repeat the skill without kneeling.

If a diver ... even one who just got done with OW ... cannot do that much, then they are not competent to hold their certification, and some remedial action is needed before they should be allowed on the reefs.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

The point of what Walt did was not the level of the test, it was that the test was two-fold, you got a chance to tell Walt what kind of a diver you thought you were, and he had a way to find out if you were telling the truth, without staging a whole production.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The point of what Walt did was not the level of the test, it was that the test was two-fold, you got a chance to tell Walt what kind of a diver you thought you were, and he had a way to find out if you were telling the truth, without staging a whole production.

... which is valuable for certain applications, since most divers tend to overestimate their own skill level. For example, it'd be a great approach for those trying to get into a cave or trimix class, where a certain degree of skill is expected as a condition for entering the class.

But at the resort level, I'd settle for just some basic competency tests that required the diver to show some competency ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Just and interesting alternative approach that I think with minor modifications could be easily applied to a recreational format and would result in a way to test divers without being onerous and time wasting. I guess a certification is not a certification.

 

[Guy Alcala]

Thanks Richard. I never thought about that possibility but in thinking about it, I don't think a specialty would be sufficient. With some agencies, the in-water assessment is so low that the diver doesn't even have to be able to swim! I don't think a traditional "specialty" type course would properly prepare a non-swimmer for heavy surf, current, high tidal exchange, poor visibility and 33 degree water temperature.

Perhaps if a set of modules were made to put together the diver program which could collectively address local conditions. Perhaps along the lines of:

AD- Advanced
OW- Openwater
A- Altitude Diving
C- Current
L- Low water temperature (60 degrees or less)
S- Surf
T- Tidal Considerations
Others....

OWA, ADCLT, etc. Each would require satisfactory completion of a standardized training module that may include: classroom, pool and openwater work. They could be placed together in the training program to achieve the necessary goal.

This would identify the type of conditions in-which the diver was suitably prepared to dive in. It would provide an indicator to dive charter operators; which would be beneficial in identifying suitably qualified divers for various conditions. Just an idea...

SSI does something like this with their AOW card; there's a box labeled "Specialities" which lists which ones you did for the cert, although we didn't actually do the specialities; it was more single adventure dives with the appropriate books. SSI seemed to be a bit schizophrenic about whether you had to take the specialties (two dives per) or were also qualified to receive the given specialty when you did the AOW course that incorporated the info but not the separate number of required dives, i.e we did five total (plus one with just my instructor and me for my drysuit run-away inflation tests). PADI said I would have to take each of the individual specialty courses.

For example, my AOW card is marked

Deep Diving
Dry Suit Diving
Navigation
Night/Limited Vis

Since I did Rescue through my club's PADI instructor I don't know if the SSI Stress & Rescue card also lists the specialties you took to make up your 5. I do like the idea, though, as there would then be some point in checking someone's C-card to find out if the local diving was equal or better than the conditions they'd trained in. Thus, an OW cert in Monterey would have LSV (V = low vis, say <=20') and maybe C & T (if they were covered at an adequate level) endorsements on it. Tides and currents should probably be in the same module.


On another point, SSI has adopted a lesser resort diver certification, which they're calling "Scuba Diver", in addition to their OW cert. This requires 3 CW and 2 OW dives. I thought PADI had done something similar, but it appears not. I applaud the idea, it's just that I think the OW course standards as all too frequently taught should be the standard for the "Scuba Diver" cert, and I'd like to see the name changed to make it more accurately express the limitations ("Guided Diver", "Resort Diver" or "Dependent Diver" all work for me).


You are here: Diving > Scuba Diver
SSI SCUBA DIVER - TO OPEN WATER DIVER IN 2 STEPS

Learn the Basics of Diving!

Scuba Diver is the perfect course for those who do not have time to complete an entire Open Water Diver Program. The content of this program represents about half of the Open Water Diver Program. You can then complete the second half and become a certified diver at another time, anywhere that is convenient for you.

The Scuba Diver Program will be fully credited towards the Open Water Diver Program. This way you will not have to redo any part of the program twice. After a short skill update you can complete your Open Water Diver rating.

Certified Scuba Divers are entitled to go diving under the direct supervision of a Dive Leader up to a maximum depth of 40 feet/12 metres. This allows you to have a lot of fun and gain further diving experience even without continuing your education.

At the end of the program you will receive your SCUBA DIVER Certificate indicating the successful completion of this program. This certificate entitles you to take part in guided dives all over the world. If you ever decide to continue your training and become a certified diver just contact your local SSI Training Facility for details on how to compoete your SSI OPEN WATER DIVER rating.


Guy