Zero to Hero? The Good ole' Days? You can't please anyone!

[Cave Diver]

I think I understand your point, Cave Diver. We lament that beginner classes are so abbreviated and omit so many things, and then we carefully tell new divers not to rush through their classes, and criticize people who do. There is definitely a disconnect there.

Exactly Lynne. On one hand we have one group of people whom we tell they were short changed in their training because it should have had A B and C.

On the other hand we tell another group that they need to slow down and not rush through so many classes and spend some time diving and getting comfortable at an open water level before taking AOW, going deep, dealing with cameras, etc.

We can't have it both ways, so which is it? A comprehensive class that covers everything, or "module" training that allows you to master one level before being introduced to the next?

 

[Thalassamania]

I am a little confused about the swimming issue. I was never a good swimmer, could not float, and was terrible at holding my breath and swimming underwater. I always loved being on or around the water though. The first time I was introduced to scuba I fell in love with it. I did pass the swim test but did not like it. In my limited diving experience I have yet to see where swimming skills both above and below the surface contribute to scuba. Scuba is an equipment dependant sport(there would be no scuba without it) and the skills required to be efficient are exactly the opposite of most swimming skills IE no use of hands, no holding breath, no fast pace etc..

For my experience level I consider myself to be a fairly good diver but a poor swimmer. I would consider a good working knowledge of math with a mechanical apptitude to understand your equipment more useful tools for diving than being a good swimmer.

Maybe someone can explain the errors of my way but until then that is my observation.

Scuba maybe "equipment dependent" but in-water survival is not. I've yet to see anyone panic and shoot to the surface because their math skills or mechanical acumen were not up to snuff.

You are correct that its an equipment issue but its like any other equipment. In the rare event that you say get entangled underwater and have to come out of your gear. Now you make it to the surface but the boat maybe 300 yards away. If your not in a wet suit you got a serious problem if you cant swim to the boat and it also endangers others who may have to get in the water to rescue you.

I agree with you and share your logic but unfortunately cars come with spare tires not because you have a flat but because you may have a flat. and in scuba you dont have to even know how to swim to dive you just need to know how in case you have to swim to safety

Not being a good swimmer and going diving is like driving on a country road with a soft shoulder, having no idea of how to change a tire, an not carrying a phone or a AAA card.

I dont really agree with this, as its very easy for over-confidence and confidence to look a lot the same until something goes wrong.

In my opinion, periods of class followed by real "get out and do it" experience followed by subsequent training are probably the best way to build true confidence and respect for ones own abilities and limitations.

I've seen some pretty "confident" people fall to pieces very fast under small amounts of stress.

Confidence it often brittle rather than resilient. I've seen any number of people whose confidence exceeded their skill crash and burn badly. On the other hand, I've never seen someone with no confidence in their ability get the job done.

 

[Cave Diver]

Not being a good swimmer and going diving is like driving on a country road with a soft shoulder, having no idea of how to change a tire, an not carrying a phone or a AAA card.

If the shoulder is soft, you can just limp along at a reduced speed without worrying about damage to the rim until you get to a more appropriate place to deal with the issue.

 

[romad119]

I think that either type, comprehensive or modular, can be made to work. I think most debate is in the content of them. At what point certain skills should be introduced, to what level, and even what to even teach

 

[Diver0001]

Don't look now but 190% of people think we've seen enough threads about the good old days.

R..

 

[Thalassamania]

I think that either type, comprehensive or modular, can be made to work. I think most debate is in the content of them. At what point certain skills should be introduced, to what level, and even what to even teach

Absolutely, I could cut my course up into chunks by lecture and write a card for each lecture, separately, collect all the cards and you get certified, it would make little difference. What the real issue is is that I don't feel that a one-size-fits-all approach to how the cuts are made are in the best interest of the student.

 

[Sas]

I think that goes against the Geneva and Hague conventions

Indeed. Probably Cave Diver is more deserving of a shave by me than Diver0001 given he started another topic on this issue though...

 

[boulderjohn]

Indeed. Probably Cave Diver is more deserving of a shave by me than Diver0001 given he started another topic on this issue though...

If I were Cave Diver, I would be very concerned about your motivation if you offered to shave that area after he started yet another thread on this topic, and I would insist on a safety razor.

 

[drbill]

If memory serves me right, when I was finally certified by L.A. County in the 60s, through a 3-week course that essentially covered everything up through rescue, I was able to go to 130 feet. Not that I did until much later... I kept all my diving above 100 feet back in that era (no SPGs at the time).

 

[limeyx]

In the good ole' days we never had threads like this...

Thats because back in the good old days it was much harder to start a thread, you had to do it blindfolded, with your hands bound -- on a teletype, then deliver it by hand to HQ where it was transcribed, translated and finally mis-filed for 6 months before being delivered over the next several seasons via the "non-social network" of donkeys yaks and rickshaws.