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A diver's doing no one a favor if he's at quarter capability due to stress. The whole stress and rescue courses are there so you can handle situations with a calm mind. Should they even be diving if they're so stressed they aren't be doing things by the book? Obviously situations differ, and you can't always do things EXACTLY how they're supposed to be done, but from what I heard of the recovery they towed him in a kayak, which is definately not what I was taught in my open dive class. Rescue breaths could have been administered during the transportation.

Lamont is completely correct. I can't count how many newly minted EMTs, paramedics and RNs I've worked with over the years. But one thing is true. VERY few can function under this level of stress without a lot of experience. Frankly, the ones who are most convinced that they were totally calm and in control were often the worst. That is one reason why we won't even interview an RN or medic for our flight team unless they have at LEAST 5 years of experience. Classrooms and books are important, but insufficient.
 
Take the jerk's footage and use it for good.
The only "good" that is likely to come out of the footage is a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks exploiting the grief of the family and using it to bolster a civil suit against the people who stuck their necks out to try to help.
 
Obviously situations differ, and you can't always do things EXACTLY how they're supposed to be done, but from what I heard of the recovery they towed him in a kayak, which is definately not what I was taught in my open dive class. Rescue breaths could have been administered during the transportation.

.

What is wrong with towing in with a kayak? If it was me....I would rather they get me to shore as fast as possible(in that case a kayak) vs. slowly swimming me in and attemping a couple useless rescue breaths. Don't bother stopping with the breaths...get my ass to shore and give me CPR, oxygen, paddles, or a beer (depending on issue)

You will very soon see the rescue breaths disappear from almost ALL training agencies. They take too long, and distract you from doing what you should be doing....getting the victim to shore so that the shore support can get to work on a stable surface with more medical equipment. Those couple breathes won't do that much vs. the minutes you save by not stopping and just hauling ass to shore.

Condolences to the family and victim....Kudos to the rescuers for their strong efforts!!
 
I also witneesed this incident on Saturday. I had just come out of the water after my first dive of the day. My daughter was completing OW cert this weekend and her class was wisely sequestered by the instructor to have lunch and dive briefing while I went to see what the trouble was about. As I sat there on the upper deck silently praying for the man who was receiving CPR, I noticed a young man with a camera and tripod next to me. I became somewhat disturbed at this and I became that guy who ruined his day. The only video he got for the next 5 minutes was a close up of my head all in in his field of view. No matter where he went I was in front of that lens. Just hated to see him there doing that.



Refrain from newspapers magazines television and the internet.

What did you think you had to contribute, going "to see what the trouble was about," stay there, watch, and act like your name on this board.

Would you not have been more appropriately tasked, upon learning the circumstances, returning to ensure your daughter remained wisely sequestered.
 
The video can be helpful to the rescuers if later down the road the victim's family wants to sue the rescuers for a botched rescue. This may sound ludacrist but it happens more than you might realize. The "Good Samaritan Law" doesn't apply when negligence is considered. If the family tries to argue (and by family, I mean their lawyer) that survival may have been possible but due to poor or improper rescue techniques, the victim died or was gravely injured when they should have survived.

Remember, anybody can sue anybody for anything...I truly believe in CYA every chance you get. People who were trying to do the right thing get sued everyday...usually it is thrown out but sometimes a smooth lawyer can package it just right to get it in front of a jury where they place a picture of the victim on a stand and paint the rescuers in a different light.

Just google "rescuers sued" and you get tons of cases. Here's one:

Law.com - Calif. Supreme Court Ruling May Deter Good Samaritans

Just my take on it...
 
This story is really tragic. I've read the posts, and here is my thoughts. I've had the unfortunate experience in seeing a full blown diving accident in 1987, our last day of an AOW/Wreck/Deep course. Two of our buddies on another boat (we had two anchored on a large wreck in 120 feet of water, since the class was very large) ran into lots of trouble. We were topside on the other boat, and brought the victims back to their boat. We saved one, and lost one. We were later told that the diver who died, drown on the bottom. We all did what ever we could to help both men. The other diver who lived was treated for possible DCS and AGE with 100% O2. The DM on the boat worked on the drown victim from the moment he was back on board the diveboat (he was a certified EMT). He never stopped. It took over an hour for help to arrive offshore. Both were choppered to a chamber in MD by the US Coast Guard.

We were taught to have a platform for rescue in our Rescue Course when we did DM. In our class, it was a large surf board. I agree that the kayak was a positive piece of rescue equipment. It got the victim in this accident back to the dock, where the possibility of CPR could bring him back. Since I know what is is like to swim victims to a boat/dock, IMHO, the kayak expedited getting him to an area that he may be helped.

I agree that the videographer and the lady taking pictures is a tough call. I studied photography as my major in college. I wanted to be a photojournalist. Then one day I realized that I would be shooting pictures of people at their worst moments. I decided against that path for my photo work. But, the law says you can photograph anything as long as you are on public property. In this case, it seems like it was private property, but an addmission was paid, so they could be there. I wouldn't have done what they did. I can say though, at our accident scene, one person logged with pen and paper times and events of the rescue. We needed an accurate account of events for the investigation that would be held.

From the information I have read on the posts to this accident, the divers did what ever they could to help the victim. As everyone knows, things like this really effect you. You think long and hard of what could I have done to help better. Sounds like everything that could have been done, was, and I commend the whole group that helped.

I constantly learn about diving, each time I go, for the last 25 years that I have participated in this fun, exciting, safe sport. I know that I learned more from the day I helped in a rescue than any other. At any depth, I always wear doubles as my back gas, always have a redundant air source (30 cu.ft. tank on a sling mount), and keep my octopus around my neck. My SPG is on a laynard, so I can just look down and monitor my gas. I carry four regs, so I can share gas, or if any malfunction happens, I have another at my fingertips.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victim and the family. Also to everyone who did everything they could to help this person. Safe diving to all.
 
A rescue certification doesn't make a diver an expert in recoveries. And typical people in recoveries have their IQ slashed in about a quarter due to the stress, and they don't go by the textbook. Unless you're dealing with someone with paramedic experience or similar who is used to those kinds of situations, being rescue trained, or a DM or an Instructor, or a Technical diver isn't going to truly prepare the rescuers for the situation. The accident also happened long before people started filming on the surface, and having video evidence of the recovery is going to be useless -- either in court or for any kind of accident analysis. For all practice purposes water "rescues" are about dragging a dead person to dry land and hoping for a miracle -- once they are unconscious on the surface you can't kill them much deader, and the best you can do for them is to simply get 911 there fast. You don't need video evidence of a bunch of people trying to cope with a stressful situation while a good chunk of their brain are trying its best to avoid dealing with reality due to shock.

So, no, propz to the guy who stood in front of the video guy and yelled at him. Turn it off, it isn't helping anyone. Not everything needs to be documented and put up on facebook and youtube.
AMEN!
Rick
 
I think the video is a tool. It could be used too see two sides to it. one being a recovery of a body, and the effort that was put into to make the best outcome.(survival of the diver)

And for the other side as a direct record of effort made for the best outcome, survival of the diver, the effort did not have the desired effect. Using the video to blame someone is the lawyer game and belongs with Davey Jones!

Just my hot air...

See you topside! John
 
What's important to realize is that while it seems heartless and a little disgusting that someone would want a video of a diver's death, it's necessary.


How is joe blow filming and uploading to youtube from his smart phone necessary? Do you honestly believe that these people are going to stick around and offer up their phones to the police or the lawyers? You have never been around an incident like this have you (scuba related or not)? You have a nice and innocent view of humans.....we are not that nice and innocent I am sorry to say. People were filming it because they have a sick and twisted desire to show all of their friends and family that they saw some poor guy die. It does absolutely nothing to aid or assist anything to do with the accident. It does not provide closure to the family but it will cause irrepairable damage when they are sent a link to the footage and they have to watch their loved one die again. The news person's footage can easily be obtained however it is unlikely that any of the personal footage would end up anywhere useful.

Bystanders have no need to film and out of respect for those involved should back the F up and put the cameras away. If you are not helping, leave.
 
A diver's doing no one a favor if he's at quarter capability due to stress. The whole stress and rescue courses are there so you can handle situations with a calm mind. Should they even be diving if they're so stressed they aren't be doing things by the book? Obviously situations differ, and you can't always do things EXACTLY how they're supposed to be done, but from what I heard of the recovery they towed him in a kayak, which is definately not what I was taught in my open dive class. Rescue breaths could have been administered during the transportation.

Once again, I didn't see it, but that's what I was told from the person observing. Maybe someone can come in here and tell me if that's what happened or not.

As for the filming, it's VERY important to document what happened. I'm NOT justifying what the reporter did, but I think we have to take a step back from our emotions sometimes and think about it.

When I first did my open water I do believe I was asked the question of whether to ditch the person's BC/tank/Regulator to the water and swim them to safety. I said yes and my instructor told me I was wrong. All of that is evidence, even if it IS cumbersome to haul with a person in critical danger, if not dead. Was there something wrong with the air? Was there a problem with the regulator? The BC? If you dump it there's the possibility it'll never be found and those questions won't be answered. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with videotaping the recovery, but it shows that you need to think about things, through the stress, and realize that it doesn't just end when the person is on shore/in a boat.

Basically, [/B]Was there something that could have been done during the recovery to help this man live?[/B] Take the jerk's footage and use it for good. I don't condone video taping people die because you're awe-struck by it. It's a serious situation and it needs to be handled with professionalism.

As for what happened, my dive leader told me that the guy was either on an advanced checkout dive or with an advanced check out group. He was having problems at depth, motioned to his buddy that he was going up, and his buddy tried to follow him but he was going too fast. The buddy lost sight of him (The visibility was horrible there) and made it to the surface, couldn't find him. Swam to the dock and from there they found him in the water with his regulator out of his mouth.

Once again, many prayers to the family and thanks to those who helped.

For one thing, a 2 day Rescue class is all about teaching self-rescue skills, and giving divers a few tools to allow them to help their fellow divers should an incident occur. It is NOT about making your average diver into a professional rescuer.

I have been a paramedic for the past 5 years, and it took me quite awhile (dealing with other peoples emergencies for 40 hours a week) to learn to function calmly and rationally under stress. It does not come naturally to the average person. It is just asking too much to expect a standard "Rescue" trained diver to function like a trained professional in a real and actual emergency. All I would expect from them is that they make the best decision possible under the circumstances.

No rescue scenario is predictable, and your reaction and actions must be modified for the circumstances. Truthfully, rescue breathing (even though it is taught in agency standards) just is not all that effective until the unconscious diver is brought out of the water. Have you tried providing mouth-to-mouth resuscitation while towing a diver, and trying to keep their airway open, water out of their airway, and head above the water? Your progress is going to be ridiculously slow. Odds are, they are pulseless anyways, in which case, rescue breaths are not going to do a damn bit of good without chest compressions. The best bet is usually (again, depends on the circumstances of that particular rescue) is going to be to make the unresponsive diver positively buoyant on the surface, tow them as fast as humanly possible, while yelling for help. Once a few other divers come to help, the diver is going to be out of the water within a minute or so. If a kayak is available to bring to diver in, then that sounds like it would be even faster.

I honestly do not see how amateur video or photos of the incident would help...for one thing, unless the camera was rolling at the start of "Help!", then it would be a potentially misleading and incomplete record of events. Personally, I am not a very good photographer, and unless the photographer or videographer just happened to be very good...odds are, the film or photos might not be of good quality. The best thing for bystanders to do is to see if they can help (gather information, move equipment of the way, direct EMS, etc), or get out of the way.

As a paramedic, I always make it a point to NEVER armchair quarterback another medics run. Unless you were administering CPR, helping to drag the injured diver in, or participating in some way in the rescue, you can never know how you would react to the situation. Sometimes, you just have to make the best decision you can at the time, with the information you have available, and hope for the best.

My personal thanks to all who participated in the rescue. Drowning deaths (particularly unwitnessed ones when there is a length of time between the actual drowning and recovering the diver), usually have a very poor outcome. Even the best decisions will not bring back the dead.
 
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