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I too was there - victims name was Terry Sholin.
I have nothing but praise for the response of the Pelham Fire Department and the time they spent on resuscitation. Sadly by the time he was found he had been under for way to long to recover.

According to the owner of Blue Water this was there first death in 10 years.

Keep Terry's family in your hearts.
 
You don't have a good handle on stress. There is no class that can teach you how to handle stress and it is indeed a killer. Rescue classes are designed to train you to operate in spite of stress, but two to three days is not nearly enough to develop enough muscle memory to completely overcome it.

The unmitigated intrusion into our privacy is real and it presents an unhealthy reason to not get involved. We don't need these voyeurs discouraging would be rescuers or to add one more ounce of stress into the situation. Kudos to the peeps who confounded them out right.

You said it better than me ... but that's really the crux of the issue ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
People do whip out the recording device for ghoulish/unique events, but so what? I wouldn't discount the value of a recording based on that. The footage can become incredibly helpful later on, if or when lawsuits are involved.

We have one client at our law firm who has a video device running in his commercial vehicle whenever he drives. It's saved his bacon more than once regarding accidents where he's been accused of being negligent. It cuts through the "he said / she said" banter when you can see the event unfolding in front of your eyes on video.

In the deceased diver's case, it sounds like a lot of things were done right and the team effort to rescue him will be evident. A recording can convey this much more effectively than trying to re-create the event in a courtroom.

Just my .02
 
A diver's doing no one a favor if he's at quarter capability due to stress. The whole stress and rescue courses are there so you can handle situations with a calm mind. Should they even be diving if they're so stressed they aren't be doing things by the book?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Having been through a recovery, with someone that I didn't even know and I wasn't diving with, the first that hits your mind is emotional shock, because you're not dealing with some CPR dummy, but dealing with a real human being who is either dead or dying.

If you haven't been through that and had to deal with it, you don't understand the effort required to push that aside and how badly it impedes your thinking. What worked in the rescue attempt that I was involved in was that we all cooperated and collectively managed to make some good decisions. Left by myself I would have screwed up all kinds of simple things that on retrospect would have been obvious (I nearly started towing the victim hundreds of yards further than we needed to because I couldn't see how we were going to get her up on a dock -- but trusted someone else who shouted out to take her there and it all worked out about as optimally as possible).

Obviously situations differ, and you can't always do things EXACTLY how they're supposed to be done, but from what I heard of the recovery they towed him in a kayak, which is definately not what I was taught in my open dive class.

Ever tried towing a real, unresponsive diver outside of a classroom situation? We had a pile of people, and about 50 feet to tow her, and we weren't making anything resembling good time until I figured out how to use my scooter to tow her. I don't know if I'd choose to haul a diver up into a kayak as being the fastest method of rescue, but given a long enough distance the time spent hauling them into the kayak is definitely going to be offset by the speed the kayak can make to shore. I would not second guess a rescuers choice to do that, even if it didn't work out well given that they're operating under pressure.

Rescue breaths could have been administered during the transportation.

Monday morning quarterbacking.

Its much more important to get them onto land and get them to the paramedics. This is actually taught in rescue courses. Do the rescue breaths if you can, get them to trained emergency personnel first. The rescuers were prioritizing correctly.

When I first did my open water I do believe I was asked the question of whether to ditch the person's BC/tank/Regulator to the water and swim them to safety. I said yes and my instructor told me I was wrong. All of that is evidence, even if it IS cumbersome to haul with a person in critical danger, if not dead. Was there something wrong with the air? Was there a problem with the regulator? The BC? If you dump it there's the possibility it'll never be found and those questions won't be answered. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with videotaping the recovery, but it shows that you need to think about things, through the stress, and realize that it doesn't just end when the person is on shore/in a boat.

Your instructor was wrong. It is better to get them out of their gear, cutting them out if necessary in order to make it easier to tow them to shore.

When doing that, the BC/wing should ideally be inflated, allowing the gear to be recovered, but that is secondary to the rescue. You optimize for the person to give them the best possible chance, you don't optimize for the analysis afterwards (which is likely to be useless anyway and reduce to being likely two or three different common causes of accidents, and the gear will not clarify anything -- nobody is going to get 'CSI' with the gear and the MD will report the death as accidental and either heart attack, drowning or embolism).

Basically, [/B]Was there something that could have been done during the recovery to help this man live?[/B] Take the jerk's footage and use it for good. I don't condone video taping people die because you're awe-struck by it. It's a serious situation and it needs to be handled with professionalism.

Any rescue or recovery effort is going to be flawed but a few rescue breaths or a few minutes less time getting them to shore isn't going to make a difference. The difference between a good attempt and the perfect attempt isn't going to save anyone. There's no point putting the rescuers through the anguish of going over the flaws in the attempted rescue when the outcomes wouldn't have been any different.

And you got important aspects of the rescue completely incorrect while on dry land with your decision making skills unimpeded by stress and shock. You can't possibly expect people in that decision to make perfect choices. And the only thing that training really gives you is the ability to push past the emotions and do something useful, rather than sitting around taking pictures with your camera phone -- it can't possibly anticipate every situation or prepare rescuers for the eventuality.
 
People do whip out the recording device for ghoulish/unique events, but so what?
It can prevent a potential rescuer from acting for fear of making a mistake caught on video.
I wouldn't discount the value of a recording based on that. The footage can become incredibly helpful later on, if or when lawsuits are involved.
Or incredibly damning.
We have one client at our law firm who has a video device running in his commercial vehicle whenever he drives. It's saved his bacon more than once
Almost apples and oranges, but relevant in one way - this video is your client's property; your client controls what happens to/with the video. If a rescuer had absolute control of what happens to any video then that would be a different matter entirely.
As with so many things, it's "who decides" that makes all the difference in the world.
Rick
 
I have been the one trying to resusitate a drowning victim. I am not an EMT who is faced daily with emergency situations, nor am I a doctor who is under that pressure daily. These people have honed their responses over heart and backbreaking time and labor at it.
A rescue diver may never have to use those skills. I hope they never do. If I didn't teach basic medic first aid courses and practice those skills like I do, I would have been a mess. I was fortunate that habit kicked in.
Picture crowds of people gathered around, not knowing how or unable to help. Others in the group knowing that too many jumping in is just as bad. You feel utterly alone and terrified. You are responsible for helping this life in danger. To think that one would function like a fine greased machine is ridiculous. I did all the right things, I performed cpr for 38 minutes before an ambulance arrived, wearing holes in my knees. I was a wreck for weeks after. Someone filming me and the victim would have been an outrage. To have to watch it on youtube would be a devastating replay of those endless moments.
The people blocking cameras and looky-loos did the right thing. To the people involved in the rescue, well done, give yourselves a break, and talk about it to others. You will need to talk it out.
To the victim and their family, my deepest condolences. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
 
... I performed cpr for 38 minutes before an ambulance arrived...
Good grief!
You're lucky you didn't join the victim on the tarmac!
It is hard to tell someone who hasn't done it how utterly exhausting CPR is without help.
38 minutes is insane!
Good on you.
Rick
 
A rescue certification doesn't make a diver an expert in recoveries. And typical people in recoveries have their IQ slashed in about a quarter due to the stress, and they don't go by the textbook. Unless you're dealing with someone with paramedic experience or similar who is used to those kinds of situations, being rescue trained, or a DM or an Instructor, or a Technical diver isn't going to truly prepare the rescuers for the situation. The accident also happened long before people started filming on the surface, and having video evidence of the recovery is going to be useless -- either in court or for any kind of accident analysis. For all practice purposes water "rescues" are about dragging a dead person to dry land and hoping for a miracle -- once they are unconscious on the surface you can't kill them much deader, and the best you can do for them is to simply get 911 there fast. You don't need video evidence of a bunch of people trying to cope with a stressful situation while a good chunk of their brain are trying its best to avoid dealing with reality due to shock.
While I agree with the sentiment that video is not helpful for accident analysis or a court room situation, it can be very good training for future rescue teams. As a ground SAR volunteer I am well versed in training for the "worst case". Video, however, is often a very good way to show people what they could have done better and help improve their training. If for no other reason than to show your point... that people are stressed and often don't do things as well as they think they are doing them.

It may not be pretty but videos like that can be helpful, if used properly.

That said, I'd probably be the guy blocking the camera if I wasn't involved in the rescue mission at the time.
 
While I agree with the sentiment that video is not helpful for accident analysis or a court room situation, it can be very good training for future rescue teams. As a ground SAR volunteer I am well versed in training for the "worst case". Video, however, is often a very good way to show people what they could have done better and help improve their training. If for no other reason than to show your point... that people are stressed and often don't do things as well as they think they are doing them.

It may not be pretty but videos like that can be helpful, if used properly.

That said, I'd probably be the guy blocking the camera if I wasn't involved in the rescue mission at the time.

I disagree. Most scuba rescues aren't initially carried out by SARs or dive professionals ... they're carried out by well-meaning recreational divers. Put those people in a situation where their actions are going to be recorded and critiqued and you're going to end up with a lot fewer people who will choose to take action when action is most needed.

Remember ... these people aren't being paid to do this job. There's no duty to act whatsoever ... they can simply decide they don't need the liability and choose not to act. The result will be fewer rescues, and more body recoveries when the pro's finally arrive.

Is that ever a desireable outcome?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I hear what you all are saying, but I still support the right of someone to film in a public location if they so desire. For those who comment on someone "sticking a camera in your face", that's clearly not what I am talking about.

Such an event is news. Would you have shut down all the cameras that pointed at the World Trade Center on 9/11? It is certainly difficult video to watch, and the vast majojrity of humans on the planet wish the event had never happened.

For all who are referring to the legal system using video to crucify a rescuer for the slightest error, don't blame the camera. Blame the legal system. If rescuers are afraid for their wallets and chose to turn away from an accident, that's not the camera's fault. Heck, there are probably a dozen or more witnesses as well, would you have them all shut their eyes or have their memories wiped?

It has been said that the world would be a better place if everyone acted as though they were being videotaped at all times.
 
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