Buddy system flaw?

[cbm32]

"You are trolling with the Spare Air nonsense, right?"
DanV

No not at all. I am only OW and have a limited number of dives so....educate me as to why you would consider that trolling. If spare air is not an answer what do you recommend? (oh and perhaps you could do so without sounding offensive....perhaps I am reading a tone into your post that isnt there but if you are not trying to be offensive I would think you would have simply made a suggestion as to what you feel would be a better answer than just calling my post nonsense)

 

[cbm32]

DB....

Thank you, and well said. I will certainly go to and read the link you provided.

 

[danvolker]

he's a new member, new diver ... maybe a response like ... that is commonly thought that is not enough air ..that you could be better served by getting something larger like a 19cf .. 19 Cubic Foot Pony Bottle reviews and discounts, Catalina
Or that much has been written about it, look at doing a search

would be a better, more informative post here in basic scuba?

Ok, you did the P.C. Answer for me. Thanks

DanV

 

[D_B]

why is being helpful the PC answer?

... It's the proper response unless you know better

 

[danvolker]

why is being helpful the PC answer?

... It's the proper response unless you know better

You did it the correct way, whereas I was bordering on being obnoxious....
DanV

 

[orm]

Yeah, this is not a Buddy issue, this is a DM issue.

I'd like to think that this practice is rare, but I've seen otherwise.

The barrier to entry of a DM are pretty low, most people with enough cash and time can become a DM, then get a job. It's really up to the Dive shop to impose guidelines and one of these should be no solo ascents on LOA. At the very least the DM should have ascended to the surface and made sure the OP was safely on the boat.

Usually it's common practice to pick the two divers with the lowest air and send them up as a buddy pair preferably with a sausage.


One day he's gonna send someone up alone then find out when they finish the dive that that person didn't make it onto the boat. Then they've got a problem.


Name and Shame, it's the only way to stop this sort of practice.

 

[cbm32]

Danv

Having not seen the threads on Spare Air the only info I had to go on was some stuff I had seen indicating that SA was sufficient to ascend from up to 100ft. Since I am only OW cert and don't plan on going deeper than about 60ft until I get AOW cert I assumed that a SA would cover an emergency should I have one (no I don't plan on having one and really doubt I will since I am not experienced enough yet to get over confident LOL). Now that I have read some of the debate on SA I will look into what size pony I will feel safe with (and maybe get a SA to carry along with the pony just in case LOL).

Thank you for pointing out that SA might not be the right answer for a redundant air source and if you feel the need to educate me on other matters in the future please do so....while keeping in mind that I may be inexperienced but not a troll.

 

[orm]

Danv

Having not seen the threads on Spare Air the only info I had to go on was some stuff I had seen indicating that SA was sufficient to ascend from up to 100ft. Since I am only OW cert and don't plan on going deeper than about 60ft until I get AOW cert I assumed that a SA would cover an emergency should I have one (no I don't plan on having one and really doubt I will since I am not experienced enough yet to get over confident LOL). Now that I have read some of the debate on SA I will look into what size pony I will feel safe with (and maybe get a SA to carry along with the pony just in case LOL).

Thank you for pointing out that SA might not be the right answer for a redundant air source and if you feel the need to educate me on other matters in the future please do so....while keeping in mind that I may be inexperienced but not a troll.

You don't need to take spare air.

Your spare air is swimming along side you. Be aware of your own and your buddy's air, practice good buddy skills and leave the pony bottle at home.

The less stuff to drop/go wrong/worry about, the better.

 

[rk288]

Hmm...at one of my favorite places to dive I have been escorted to the safety stop bar where there is spare air by one of my favorite instructors. I have been on many dives with this instructor. At first she would stay with me then gradually she would leave me at the safety stop while she gathered other divers. She was always first in, last out...spare air being right at my elbow I guess she had become comfortable with my capabilities...

Good point about high air users being sent out in pairs, I'll remember that one.

 

[danvolker]

"You are trolling with the Spare Air nonsense, right?"
DanV

No not at all. I am only OW and have a limited number of dives so....educate me as to why you would consider that trolling. If spare air is not an answer what do you recommend? (oh and perhaps you could do so without sounding offensive....perhaps I am reading a tone into your post that isnt there but if you are not trying to be offensive I would think you would have simply made a suggestion as to what you feel would be a better answer than just calling my post nonsense)

You should have read some of the "spare death" threads that were all over rec.scuba back in the late 90's.....they were brutal....mostly to counter the manufacturer's movement to make new divers feel safe, when in fact the spare air could make them confident ally stay down longer than it would be safe to.....
If a new diver has an actual OOA emergency, the typical response is fear, extreme adrenaline , elevated heart beat and increased breathing....just at the worst time.....if they attempt to deploy the spare air, by the time they are breathing off of it, and think about heading upward to the surface, they could easily be out of air all over again in just a few more seconds....
The tiny air reserve is ridiculous for anything much beyond OOA in a deep swimming pool.
As another poster said, if you really want your own redundant backup, other than your buddy, this would be a 20 cubic foot pony with it's own 1st and 2nd stage reg on it.


If you had real buddies as an option though, this is far better. You are supposed to keep track of your buddies air supply ( your redundant gas), and he should be keeping track of yours( his redundant air supply). Neither of you should ever get dangerously low if monitoring each other, and if one has an emergency, the redundant air supply swims right up to you and stuffs the working erg in your mouth....

Regards,
DanV