Getting in Over Your Head

[boulderjohn]

All beginning scuba divers are taught in their instruction that they should not go into environments like caves without proper training. Yet it happens more than we might expect, and, sadly, it often leads to tragedy. Ironically, a number of people to whom these tragedies occur are the open water scuba instructors who taught their students not to go into caves without cave training.

The purpose of this thread is to explore the reasons why this happens. Anyone can participate meaningfully. Newly-minted divers can describe the kinds of warning they received or didn't receive. People who have been tempted can talk about the allure of that temptation, whether they submitted to it or not. Experienced divers can relate events they have witnessed that shed light on this. Anyone can give opinions about what can be done to help deal with this. People who are not sure what kind of training is needed or why it is needed can ask questions.

Even though this constitutes advanced diving to be sure, I am putting it in the Basic Diving thread because I want to include all divers in it and get everyone's perspective. I also would like this to serve as something of a warning to new or less experienced divers who might feel that temptation some day.

As for me, when doing OW dives, I always sought out the ones with swim throughs, and I just loved going through them. I did some supervised cavern diving in Mexico and loved it. Other than that, I never ventured into a cave, but I have to admit that I also never really had the opportunity. Who knows what would have happened had I had the chance to venture--oh, just a few feet--into a benign looking cave before I had my training?

 

[Lenaxia]

I can speak that during my OW training caving and overheads were not even mentioned. It never occurred to me, the dangers of overhead until well after my cert and when I started doing my own research.

While I haven't been a long time diver yet, my own personal take on the deaths that occur due to lack of proper training is the same as any other injury in any other sport: complacency.

"oh just a few more feet" is exactly that. You can't stop people from doing stupid stuff or from trying to justify risk. It's the same way I got a concussion last winter while doing cliff drops on my snowboard. I was fully aware of the risk but reasoned it away.

No amount of education will stop someone's sense of adventure. Only the strength of someone's personal responsibility will, and that is up to the person themselves to work on.

 

[boulderjohn]

On another thread on another topic, someone made a very helpful link to a psychological phenomenon that had a name. I thought I saved the link, but I didn't. Anyway, the main idea is that when people are still in their relatively early stages of learning a skill, they tend to overestimate their abilities. Conversely, people who have gone on to achieve a high level of skill often underestimate their abilities.

it is a phenomenon I saw all the time as a high school teacher and listened to teenage drivers brag about how their vastly superior driving skills made it OK for them to drive at outrageous speeds, etc.

Perhaps that is one reason people explore caves without proper training.

In a recent incident in which a diver entered a very challenging cave repeatedly without any cave training whatsoever, it is clear from the things he wrote in his personal writings and from the things his non-diving friends said in relation to what they knew about him that he considered himself an expert cave diver. Some of his non-diving friends, obviously basing their thoughts on what he had told them, seemed to think he was among the elite in the cave diving world.

 

[Gombessa]

Nothing cave or cavern-related, but when I was first certified, the thing that immediately struck me was how instructors and DMs, the very ones who spent hours drilling into my head the idea that you always do buddy checks, always discuss a dive plan, and never dive beyond your training or experience, would never seem to follow those rules. I was immediately invited to join on a dive to >100ft, and I watched as instructors and former students from my class just jumped in the water without going over their or their buddy's gear, or discussing dive profiles, separation protocols and gas management plans. Once I had the card, it seemed like everything I was taught was suddenly optional, at least if you watched by example.

As far as I could tell, that didn't bother anyone else in my class, but it really stuck with me, probably because I tend to be a cautious person by nature. It's pretty much what led me to proactively seek out higher quality and more rigorous education.

I have no idea if this kind of experience is common as far as new divers are concerned, but if it is, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that divers shrug off warnings, training or common sense.

 

[boulderjohn]

I can speak that during my OW training caving and overheads were not even mentioned. It never occurred to me, the dangers of overhead until well after my cert and when I started doing my own research.

I wonder to what degree that is true of diver education in general. I tell my students very firmly about the dangers of caves. I wonder how many others do.

 

[Gombessa]

I wonder to what degree that is true of diver education in general. I tell my students very firmly about the dangers of caves. I wonder how many others do.

That was another thing. I do remember being told "You never, ever go into any overhead without proper training" during OW training, which brought to mind the distinction with swim-throughs, arches and overhangs, and "true" overheads. But again, right out of class, "safe" swim-throughs in sanitized wrecks were immediately offered without any caveats.

 

[Crush]

On another thread on another topic, someone made a very helpful link to a psychological phenomenon that had a name. I thought I saved the link, but I didn't. Anyway, the main idea is that when people are still in their relatively early stages of learning a skill, they tend to overestimate their abilities. Conversely, people who have gone on to achieve a high level of skill often underestimate their abilities.

Not what you were looking for, but how about:

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge
-Charles Darwin, Introduction to The Descent of Man (1871)​

 

[Lenaxia]

What mpetryk quoted has great truth. I may only be 24, but I have learned several lessons the hard way. Thankfully without catastrophic results but enough to heighten my sense of responsibility and awareness for consequences of what I do.

I wonder to what degree that is true of diver education in general. I tell my students very firmly about the dangers of caves. I wonder how many others do.

I got certified via Royal Caribbean and so I'm fairly certain that most people who get certified on cruises experience a similar lack of instruction. I would be interested to see the number of people who fail the OW course on cruises/resort areas versus those who fail at normal local areas that don't rely on tourist traffic.

There is probably a significant gap.

Browsing these forums, I can't help but notice the number of times I've heard reference to "trust-me" swims; in caves; in wrecks; and in any other kind of overhang.

 

[boulderjohn]

I got certified via Royal Caribbean and so I'm fairly certain that most people who get certified on cruises experience a similar lack of instruction. I would be interested to see the number of people who fail the OW course on cruises/resort areas versus those who fail at normal local areas that don't rely on tourist traffic.

Actually, with cruises things may be a bit different. I have never been on one, so I don't know.

There really is no failure of the courses--students keep at it until they either get it or decide that they aren't going to get it and quit. With no time limit in the class, students can just keep plugging away until they meet the standards for certification.

 

[LoonDiver]

On another thread on another topic, someone made a very helpful link to a psychological phenomenon that had a name. I thought I saved the link, but I didn't. Anyway, the main idea is that when people are still in their relatively early stages of learning a skill, they tend to overestimate their abilities. Conversely, people who have gone on to achieve a high level of skill often underestimate their abilities.

That's really interesting. I wonder if there is a difference in that response between men and women? I'm a (very) new diver and I am the opposite. I am very very aware of how much I DON'T know. I have been lurking on ScubaBoard since shortly after I received my C Card, trying to learn as much as I can here. I think I should have a Learner's Permit, not a card allowing me to dive on my own (gasp)! I'm also female and ...um...older... My husband took the classes and became certified at the same time and while I don't think he would do anything really stupid, he's way more willing to "push it" than I am. He's well aware if he pushes it while I am his buddy that I will thumb the dive.

As to the original question in this thread. I don't remember anything mentioned in my OW classes about staying out of overhead environments. It was mentioned very briefly (in passing) at the quarry where we had our checkout dives, as in "You really shouldn't go into overhead environments". But it wasn't emphasized and we weren't told why, nor were we told there was special training for cave diving.