Pony Bottle, worth it?

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If you have a good, reliable buddy and you both plan and manage your gas for an OOA emergency then you probably do not need to bother with a pony. If you dive solo then you should have a pony when conditions warrant. If you do not have such a buddy then you may be diving solo at times and not realize it.

I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread so quite possibly someone has already given you the answer I am about to give. Anyways... I am a strong believer in truly redundant gas supply and I don't believe in "reliable buddies". You must consider possibility that not only you can have OOA (which you shouldn't) but your "reliable" buddy could be out of air too. OOA is an extremely stressful situation. If you let your buddy breath from your primary source using octo you both can run out of gas and then what? Because your buddy (and you) under the stress will be sucking air like there is no tomorrow. Also your "relible" buddy in real life threatening situation could panic and kill you both.

However if you had a sidemounted pony, you could just clip it on your buddy's bc, let him calm down and do a safe ascent...
 
Yes, MY air. I Filled that tank and its attached to my back so that I can breathe underwater....I think that makes it mine.

The Buddy is there because on a Recreational dive trip most (if not all) dive operators in my area require you to dive with a "buddy". Rediculous if you ask me, but sensable for the general population given the lack of self sufficiency of quite a few divers these days.

So, when you are diving with these operators do you make it clear to everyone onboard (but especially your "buddy") that should anyone have an OOA issue you have no intention of sharing YOUR air with them?


And at what point do you tell them?

During the briefing?

Or underwater?

Do you wait for a fellow diver to have an emergency first? Then, when they follow their training and grab for your octo (assuming you have one of course)

Is that the point you refuse to help them?
 
Troll much...??
 
So, when you are diving with these operators do you make it clear to everyone onboard (but especially your "buddy") that should anyone have an OOA issue you have no intention of sharing YOUR air with them?


And at what point do you tell them?

During the briefing?

Or underwater?

Do you wait for a fellow diver to have an emergency first? Then, when they follow their training and grab for your octo (assuming you have one of course)

Is that the point you refuse to help them?

Why the hate?

I understand where he is coming from. Scuba diving is about having a self sustained system of breathing. Each person is to carry and take care of the air supply needed to stay alive underwater. Is that not to say it isn't to ever be shared? No, but in theory its on your back its your air. Sure if someone is struggling there is no reason why you should be swimming away hoarding basically "life in a bottle" but if they are going to grab your octo and start sucking like there is no tomorrow now your both in trouble.
 
I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread so quite possibly someone has already given you the answer I am about to give. Anyways... I am a strong believer in truly redundant gas supply and I don't believe in "reliable buddies". You must consider possibility that not only you can have OOA (which you shouldn't) but your "reliable" buddy could be out of air too. OOA is an extremely stressful situation. If you let your buddy breath from your primary source using octo you both can run out of gas and then what? Because your buddy (and you) under the stress will be sucking air like there is no tomorrow. Also your "relible" buddy in real life threatening situation could panic and kill you both.

However if you had a sidemounted pony, you could just clip it on your buddy's bc, let him calm down and do a safe ascent...

This sounds like using a pony to replace proper gas planning and lack of training. Exactly the reason so many divers think pony's are a bad idea.

Rock bottom reserves are supposed to be planned with stress accounted for and with some regular practice, it should not be a catastrophic situation, just a minor "o-****" followed by an well practiced response.

FWIW: I do dive with a pony when solo, I believe it can be the right tool for the job but is not a universal solution to all issues, nor to make you feel warm and fuzzy.
 
Why the hate?

I understand where he is coming from. Scuba diving is about having a self sustained system of breathing. Each person is to carry and take care of the air supply needed to stay alive underwater. Is that not to say it isn't to ever be shared? No, but in theory its on your back its your air. Sure if
someone is struggling there is no reason why you should be swimming away hoarding basically "life in a bottle" but if they are going to grab your octo and start sucking like there is no tomorrow now your both in trouble.

No hate. It was an honest question.

And the question was brought from the earlier statement that the diver in question will NOT share air with his buddy.

The rest of your post shows a lack of understanding how the buddy system and proper dive planning work.

Which is fine if you dive solo as well.
 
This sounds like using a pony to replace proper gas planning and lack of training. Exactly the reason so many divers think pony's are a bad idea.

Rock bottom reserves are supposed to be planned with stress accounted for and with some regular practice, it should not be a catastrophic situation, just a minor "o-****" followed by an well practiced response.

FWIW: I do dive with a pony when solo, I believe it can be the right tool for the job but is not a universal solution to all issues, nor to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

I agree with all but the first line of this unless you happen to be referring to a potential dive buddy's lack of gas planning and training (not that of Mproekt1 whose post prompted the comment quoted above) If you were referring to the potential buddy's shortcomings, I agree completely!!!

I am still getting used to planning gas for myself, and always try to set my turn point to allow plenty of gas to get myself and my buddy (if I have one) through a few minutes of "creative problem solving" at depth, plus a normal ascent, deco if necessary, safety stop, and surfacing... A slung pony on my kit does not factor into the actual cubic feet of gas I intend to require for this. I attempt to dive with either manifolded doubles or a slung pony/stage, or both if I am not carrying deco gas.

I can take responsibility for my own gas planning and training, and for the consequences of falling short in this department. The redundant supply is primarily for the person who cannot or will not control or take responsibility theirs, or has a catastrophic equipment failure, or other emergency. I feel that it reduces the chances of another person's misfortune becoming my own, and increases the chances of both of us surfacing on a positive note.

I carry the redundancy partly because I do not want a panicked diver breathing gas from the same first stage as me. (especially if we are in cold water). I prefer the ability to be able to attach the pony to an OOA diver if I either cannot control them, cannot ascend with them due to a potential deco obligation or safety stop I do not wish to miss, or if I cannot free that person from an entanglement/entrapment, and must leave their presence to get more tools/help/gas from a nearby location. (Either way, they are going to be breathing on my 7' long hose or from a bottle I can separate quickly from my own kit so that I can get some distance from them if necessary)

I know that this "philosophy" takes a slightly different direction (and is certainly more long-winded) than Mproekt1's, but the common theme remains... Two open water divers with direct access to the surface, exercising good buddy skills and even mediocre gas planning and monitoring should be able to avoid the need for a pony. That having been said, I feel there are too many variables underwater for me to go there except on the simplest shallowest buddy dives without redundancy in my gas supply. I would like to think that this does not mean that I am inadequately trained or lack gas planning skills.

While I hate to see people use a pony (or any other piece of equipment) as a substitute for proper skills, planning, training, judgement, I REALLY dislike seeing divers subjected to some perception that planning and equipping for the unexpected implies that they lack skills, knowledge, or experience. Such planning and equipment selection to me implies that a diver's mind is in the right place, and that they are prepared to deal with and assist a fellow diver who falls short in some regard.

Safe Diving!!!

Will
 
I agree with all but the first line of this unless you happen to be referring to a potential dive buddy's lack of gas planning and training (not that of Mproekt1 whose post prompted the comment quoted above) If you were referring to the potential buddy's shortcomings, I agree completely!!!

I would counter that if the buddy's have a different gas plans or are totally unaware of each others gas volume, then they are essentially 2 solo divers, not a buddy team.

If you find yourself in this situation, then you should be confident as a solo diver and be properly geared up, this goes well beyond strapping on a pony tank.

If not, then you need to go back to the start and plan properly.
 
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