Told My Jedi Master I'm Ready for 200' - need to start preparing

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He's been to 850' on rebreathers a few times and routinely does 400. I'm nowhere near that but I'm ready to shoot for 200 on open circuit.

I'm looking for a good deal on a drysuit. Wouldn't hurt to have a cold water reg. Any good quality off the shelf reg or something else? Aside from the obvious what are the details? Double tanks, what size? Two computers? Three computers? Seventeen computers? Bailout bottle? What else?

To address your comments ...

- Don't look for a good deal on a drysuit ... look for a drysuit that's appropriate to that type of diving. That means getting one that fits you properly, that won't bind under the armpits when you do a valve drill, and that is reasonable abrasion-proof ... since if it floods you won't have the option of just getting out of the water. Secondly, choose an undergarment that will still keep you warm if it gets wet ... because it may have to.

- Not only wouldn't it hurt to have a cold-water reg, but if you're serious about going to 200 feet it wouldn't hurt to have four of them ... plus an argon reg.

- Double tanks ... minimal size for that depth would be in the 119-120 CF range. Add a couple 40 CF aluminum deco bottles and a small (6 - 13 CF) bottle for argon.

- Two computers ... or one computer and one bottom timer ... or two bottom timers ... depending on how you want to conduct your dive. The key here is that you won't be left guessing depth and time if one should fail.

- Bailout? Not needed if you've been properly trained on isolating doubles.

- What else? Common sense, self-discipline, and lots of money ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
You might want to start off by doing more than 10 dives a year. You state you've been diving for over 15 years and your profile lists you in the 100-199 range. Diving deep requires more dedication than that of a casual diver. You should be doing at least 100 dives a year.
i disagree a little bit.
i don't do 100 dives a year and my first 200 ft was the dive 210.
only 18 dives in 2010. 3 of them at Bonne Terre Mine.

but i have a lot of dives > 130 ft, do deco usually.
I didn't dive at 200 ft before because i didn't have the opportunity to do it.
this 210 th dive was with trimix

next step (next week ?) : 230 ft
 
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Several years ago I wanted to film the "deep ecology" at depths to 200 ft off our shores. I dive air strictly... no geezer gas (certainly not for that depth nor do I use it for a deco gas). On these dives (as almost all my dives), I did it solo (this time so as not to expose another diver to the risks). Of course I had redundant air supplies and other solo/deep safety measures.

I did not go to 200 ft immediately of course. I spent some time (months) working way to increasing depths, assessing my response to narcosis, etc. At the time I was doing 300-350 dives a year and my body was loaded with nitrogen. I believe (but can't prove) that my physiological systems were acclimated to the higher nitrogen loads. Narcosis even at 200 ft (by the time I reached that depth) was relatively minimal (but present). I could locate subjects, frame them properly and follow them if they moved. I could operate all the controls on my housing and lights properly. I could easily read my gauges (and did so) and assess when I needed to begin my ascent given the deco obligation I had acquired.

I haven't done dives to that depth in about two years now. In fact, I've been very noticeably narced on shallower dives (151 and 107 ft) since then. I no longer do so many dives (less than 100 per year the past two years) so my nitrogen loading is far lower. I would not go back to those depths without several months of acclimitization.

I never recommend to other divers that they dive solo (as I do) or do deep dives like the ones I did. That would be irresponsible of me since I wouldn't have a clue about the other diver's real experience, their equipment (unless they detailed it) or... most importantly in my mind... their response to emergency situations. IMHO without reasonable knowledge of the last element, a diver engaging in solo diving or deep diving on air is risking far too much.

If you really want to dive to that depth, I applaud the fact you are seeking instruction from someone with deep diving experience. I wish you good luck and safe diving if you proceed.
 
Dr Bill I will be your proof, I have been in the water everyday since the start of june, and have spent 4 to 5 hours under water, the last part of nearly 7 hours down a day.

Minimum of two dives at close to 300' while most were 250' ta start the day.
after studying salmon, I started salmon fishing on SI. Since the first of July I spent all daylight hours on the water, we only had one day I had to go to protected waters, all the rest I could go where ever I wanted.

Your body will eventually adapt to the narcosis, and learn how to think through the narcosis. Although when flying through current you can get more intense of a narc not knowing what comes up. the puget sound had light down past 200' in many areas.

Good to you for you quest of the 200' mark, may it be a safe and fun dive for you to continue.
 
1. I have virtually no knowledge of tec diving. My objective here is to get to the point that I can ask informed questions. For this conversation I am ignoring my last 15+ years of rec diving and listening to those who are more experienced.

2. The shop owner (Jedi Master) was a Navy diver for many years. He was not down there to look at the fish, he was down there to blow things up. The wikipedia list says nothing about military diving.

3. He lives 120 miles away so this forum is more accessible than he is, especially for causal beginner discussion.

4. Thank you in advance for your patience, this is a new road for me and I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to contribute.

1) If you have virtually no knowledge of tec diving, then I would not only disagree with your "Jedi Master," I would also think him to be either reckless or foolish - possibly both - for suggesting you're ready to dive to 200 feet. I have to assume that would be a "trust me" dive with him leading it.

2) Someone being a Navy diver for years doesn't mean he should be advising you to dive well past your experience and lack of technical training. It's ridiculous and dangerous.

3) 200' is not a casual dive, and certainly not a beginner's tec dive. This shouldn't be considered either with regards to discussion in my opinion.

4) Experience is often something you get right after you need it, so get that in training not at 200' with a problem you don't know how to resolve yourself. Go get your tec training first, then visit 200' if you so chose.

I can't believe I just got sucked in to this heh

Good luck man,
 
Not knowing where you are in your progression I'd suggest that, at a minimum, you need to perform, flawlessly, under direct supervision, with all the skills being practiced: 12 dives to 30 feet, 12 dives to 60 feet, 12 dives to 100 feet, 12 dives to 130 feet, 12 dives to 150 feet and then 12 more dives to 190 before you are ready to do so with a buddy of similar qualifications. And that's just the diving end, you will also need to learn EAN, Mixed Gas, Decompression and a slew of other stuff.
 
You have received responses from several SB members whose opinions are to be highly regarded, and whose experience is considerable. Some responses have (not altogether surprisingly) questioned the sincerity of your OP and the reasoning behind your opening statement, and have shared with you their concern that perhaps more diving experience would serve you well before you take the plunge, etc. While I echo some of the sentiments, I choose a slightly different approach to addressing your questions. Let's asume that your OP was sincere, and that it was perhaps more the syntax of the post, rather than the substance, that led some to (? understandably) believe it was a bit flippant, and therefore not to be taken seriously.

One approach to addressing your questions is to tell you what we/I might use to dive to 200'. The last time (not the first time) I did go to 200', in June, my exposure suit was a trilam drysuit (with a separate neoprene hood), I used manifolded double HP130s on my back that were filled with trimix (18/40) and were attached to a SS backplate, with a 60lb single bladder wing, I used Apeks Tec 3 regulators on my backgas tanks, I wore stiff paddle fins (Jetfins) appropriate to pushing me and the heavy rig through the water, I carried two decompression gas bottles (80cf and 40cf), filled with 50% and 100% oxygen, I carried a canister light, and two back-up LED lights, I had three computers (X1. Helo2, Nitek He) strapped to my arms, I carried a 100 lb lift bag, a 140' reel, two cutting devices, two written copies of my dive plan / run times, with contingencies. That was the rig (and I am probably omitting some items), but that was just the 'small' part of what I needed to dive to 200'. I dove with a buddy with whom I have been diving for 5 years, someone who I know well, someone I trust, and someone with whom I communicate effectively underwater. We planned the dive together in advance, we agreed on the plan, the times, the gases, the procedures, and discussed a variety of 'what if' scenarios before entering the water.

And, that part was bigger than the rig, but not the biggest part. Before diving to 200', before diving to 180' or 160' or 100', I trained - from OW ultimately technical training and trimix training - and I dove - lots of dives, lots of decompression dives to various depths shallower than 200', and I practiced - buoyancy control, gas sharing, gas switching, lift bag deployment, no mask swimming, etc., etc. So, I had the training, the body of experience, and the dive buddy that allowed the rig to work for me and allowed me to feel comfortable going to 200'.

Now, having given that more ponderous background, I will also say that a year ago in Bonaire, two other technically trained, experienced, familiar divers and I dove to 170ft on single AL80s filled with air, in westsuits, with no redundant gas supply - other than each other - no a priori dive plan with run times, no decompression gases, and each carrying a single computer, a single cutting device, no lift bag, no reel, etc. We did that because we knew each other well, we were diving in warm, clear water, we knew we could do it, and honestly we did it on a whim - we descended on the outside of the second reef at a particular spot and just decided to follow the descending bottom contour until we more or less mutally agreed to turn around and ascend back to the reef and hang out watching fish for a while.

So, what do you need to go to 200'? You can do it with the same equipment you use to dive to 50'. And, you might / possibly / probably will be successful. But, you can also plan for a drysuit, double tanks of a size appropriate to your a priori calculation of how much gas you need based on your measured consumption rates, and a variety of additional paraphrenalia that will maximize your chances of a safe return, even if the dive goes sour. The choice of gear brands and models is very individual and there are lots of SB threads on the 'best' - drysuit, regulators, backplate, wing, fins, tank, computer, decompression software, fins, undergarments, etc., etc. - you get the picture. And, the gear will maximize (not guarantee) the likelihood of that safe return because you have also pursued the training that will allow you to calmly, comfortably, efficiently deploy the necessary back-up resources at the time they are needed. This is not meant to be a sermon, just a first person testimonial that you can accept or disregard as you choose.
He's been to 850' on rebreathers a few times and routinely does 400. I'm nowhere near that but I'm ready to shoot for 200 on open circuit.
I am curious - 1) where does he routinely dive to 400' (not a cynical question, just genuine curiosity, as I find it hard to identify readily accessible sites that offer that depth), and 2) what tells you that you are ready (again, not in any way saying you are or aren't rather just asking about your thinking).
I'm looking for a good deal on a drysuit. Wouldn't hurt to have a cold water reg. Any good quality off the shelf reg or something else? Aside from the obvious what are the details? Double tanks, what size? Two computers? Three computers? Seventeen computers? Bailout bottle? What else?
I have described what I use (FWIW, I think a good deal on a drysuit is buying one, for whatever price, that fits me well and doesn't leak too much), and what I did to prepare, and leave it to others to do the same.
 
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I'm always nervous when someone arbitarily sets a depth as a personal goal. Had the OP said "I would like to be able to dive the wreck of the _____which lies in 200' of water... what training and equipment do you folks recommend" then I might be less concerned.

I try (and often fail) to teach my sons (fellow divers) that diving is a means to an end...whether that "end" is to view wildlife, a shipwreck or simply to train to be a better diver it is still a means to an end. To simply say I want to hit 200' strikes me as more of a reckless personal challenge (in the case of the OP I hope I am wrong).

Progression in diving is a measured combination of training and experience. In my opinion a dive to 200' falls within the definition of a fairly complicated technical dive requiring very specific training and years of experience.
 
Your body will eventually adapt to the narcosis, and learn how to think through the narcosis.

... sometimes ... and other times the narcosis may distract you to the point where you forget to check your gauges and run yourself out of air at 200 feet ... like what happened to a certain mutual friend of ours not too long ago.

The question you gotta ask yourself is do you feel lucky today?

Well ... do ya?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Thus far you have received a lot of practical advice with respect to training and equipment.

For some "light" background reading try this thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/395698-cozumel-incident-9-4-11-a.html - it deals with dive professionals who wanted to dive deep on air, presumably because they wanted to be able to brag about it. Spoiler alert: one fared reasonably well, one is partly paralyzed, and one may (or may not) survive. Diving deep can be done, but your motivation for it is unclear and/or troubling.

Personal comment: I am also concerned about your Jedi Master comment. Speaking generally of hero worship and not commenting on you, hero worship tends to interfere with sound judgment and critical thinking, turning diving into a "trust me" sport.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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