Is AOW necessary?

[MauiScubaSteve]

Thank you I wasnt aware of this clause. Is this clause widely used?

I would call "equivalent experience" one variation on the clause. If you have experience equivalent to AOW, if you pass a check out dive, if the "advanced dive" is near the end of a multiple day package (multiple check out dives), if you just "nailed it" in OW class with the same op that you go "guided" boat diving with (multiple check out dives), ...

 

[buddhasummer]

I would call "equivalent experience" one variation on the clause. If you have experience equivalent to AOW, if you pass a check out dive, if the "advanced dive" is near the end of a multiple day package (multiple check out dives), if you just "nailed it" in OW class with the same op that you go "guided" boat diving with (multiple check out dives), ...

Thats good to know, my regular dive buddy is OW and was declined an "advanced" (greater than 20 meter depth) dive on a boat last year, his experience level was never questioned. If it happens again Ill mention his experience and this clause. Although I guess it would be up to the operator if they were willing to accept this or not.

 

[fdarden]

I am in the middle of my Advanced open water right now. Either I am an incredible, highly evolved mind, or this is one of the biggest "certification" pranks on the planet. I find absolutely no challenge in the educational materials - I can take PADI's tests and pass them with 100% almost every time, without even reviewing their material. I am hoping that the dives are going to require me to do SOMETHING challenging. I actually wanted to become a better diver, and that is why I started the advanced module. I am now understanding why people branch out to other certifying agencies. I work in an industry where paper certs are common, and I watch unqualified people take down corporate enterprise networks every day. However we can fix a network. We probably cannot fix a diver that has been lulled into believing their skills are better than they really are by this advanced class and ends up in a situation that they were not prepared for. I took the Nitrox class in about an hour, and passed it easily without trying. Only new info in that class was the gas calculation which I already had from Wikipedia. Trust me, I am not bragging. I am at best an average diver, and I am no "great mind" I never thought I would say this, but I think I am going to be turning to GUE or a similar agency for future certifications. I understand that they have a much more rigid program. As I progress in diving skills, I am certain I am going to want to take on more challenging dives as my skills improve, and I want to be REALLY ready for it. I don't think Open Water cert should be a barrier to entry into diving, like the Morse Code tests used to be a barrier into Ham radio. (you now no longer have to know morse code to get an operators license) What I take issue with is calling something "advanced" when its really more like a review. Maybe I will feel differently when I get the mandatory dives logged, but I have done all the mandatory dives undocumented already, up down and sideways. Dont get me wrong,I think PADI is a great, friendly place/way to start diving, but beyond their open water cert, I think its a waste. If it took real skill, then yes I think its a great idea. Hopefully I dont offend anyone with this next comment, but my PADI experience so far is making me question all of their upstream certs such as rescue diver, and even Divemaster and Instructor.

 

[oldogre]

My Dive Insurance (Aqua Med) covers me to Dive "within the limits of my Qualifications. I have no idea about other companies.

 

[SeaHorse81]

I have taken two AOW courses. The first one was basically a $300+ card which changed nothing -- did not make me a better diver and didn't give me anything I couldn't have gotten just from reading a decent book. The other gave me new skills and the information to know why those skills matter.

Given that the AOW education varies so widely in quality, I can't see making it a stand-alone requirement for anything. If skill level is important for a particular type of diving and an operator wants to assure that the diver is adequately prepared, I don't see the AOW card as giving the operator the necessary info. I would think a detailed conversation about experience and knowledge, and possibly a checkout dive, would be far more informative.

I don't see the logic in requiring AOW before any other courses when AOW may or may not mean anything. I can't see why on earth you'd ever want to put an obstacle in front of somebody wanting to take a rescue class.

 

[ajduplessis]

Any additional training and knowledge is important.

The more more you know the better it gets!!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

All of these points are fair enough.

But in the end, when you travel, and dive at different sites, areas, countries and of course dive centres, it does give a little reference to the people who take you out, and have no idea of your quality or experience in diving.

In practice, all an AOW card will tell anyone is that you have done at least 9 supervised dives ... until they see you dive, they will still have no idea of your quality or experience in diving. As evidenced by comments in this thread, the majority of people who take AOW do so because they want to do deeper dives. But the reality is that the majority of divers come out of those AOW classes as unprepared for deeper diving as they were when they went into them.

It might be interesting to ask people whether or not they felt AOW adequately prepared them for deep diving ... and why or why not ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thats good to know, my regular dive buddy is OW and was declined an "advanced" (greater than 20 meter depth) dive on a boat last year, his experience level was never questioned. If it happens again Ill mention his experience and this clause. Although I guess it would be up to the operator if they were willing to accept this or not.

It is an operator decision. Many resorts won't let you get on their boat ... or even check out a tank ... until you do a "checkout dive". In one case in Roatan, I missed an entire day of diving because of this silly rule. After wasting a day of my vacation, their "checkout dive" consisted of doing a mask flood and clear and a reg recovery. Even worse, the DM insisted I do so while kneeling. The whole process was nothing more than a sham and an embarrassment ... but it was the house rule.

Many of the business decisions commonly made in the dive industry are useless ... if not downright detrimental to the client.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaSteve]

This is not really a valid Poll considering you do not finish the thought. Is AOW required for what? To play chess? To dive the Andrea Doria? To perform open heart surgery? There are just as many dive related scenarios where AOW is not required as there are where it is.

Is AOW useful? I believe that in many cases no it is not. Mine was a complete waste of money and I know several others who felt the same. There are some Instructors that make it worthwhile and that is great but others just move you through to collect the money.

I believe proven experience and good skills are more important than the card. But, in order to accept or believe that a diver has those things, they would either have to prove that every time a dive required said experience/skills OR they would need a card to "prove" (note the quotes) that they have shown proficiency in the required areas. Hence the AOW. I really think divers would be better served if the OW/AOW were combined into OW but that does nothing to line any pockets.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Sb faithful well this is a topic that Bob "Grateful Diver" has pretty much embodied my opinion.
My AOW was far more than what the Padi requirements were but it was taken immediately after OW as well.
I tend to agree with a lot of agencies that include the AOW material in their OW coarse.

The old YMCA OW divers were really at the level of Rescue when they were certified.
I have dove with some of these and to insult them with a AOW requirement is foolish.
Most are more competent divers than your out of the box DM from any given agency.
NOT ALL THOUGH! So I say the evaluation with criteria would not be a bad idea.

There is no amount of book smart to take the place of in water time and mastery of skills.
I am not commenting on any agency or criticizing there rules and regulations just stating there are differences in this level of training.
I see both schools of thought on this topic and bottom line some divers would never pass a tough OW all inclusive cert.
They desire to be only vacation divers who are always guided and or watched over.

IS THIS MY IDEA OF DIVING?
NO WAY!
For many it is and that is their choice and I will support them in that they NEED to be looked after.
For those like myself I love to challenge and take the tough certs. always seeking to improve skills diving in many different environments / conditions.

It is simply to different styles of diving all together so GREAT we all are divers and we all drive the industry that keep us both in the water!

Which one builds the best diver? THE INSTRUCTOR DOES!
I personally know instructors from 5-6 different agencies and have not whims sending students to them.
I want to ask a few key questions to the student about their dive goals then I make a recommendation.
They choose what type of diver they wish to be!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!