Individual Rights, and other Myths

[Mike Boswell]

you are free not to pay, just live with the consequences of those actions....

it's a silly argument in my view, either we allow people the freedom to engage in risky behavior like driving a car, scuba, skydiving etc. and respect that people should be free to pursue their passions or not. If not then pass endless regulations to keep us all safe. I'll vote on that with my feet on that when possible and if not with my life. I believe in freedom and liberty as a essential right, not one granted to me by anybody or any government. There was a time when western governments were willing to fight for our freedoms.

Trouble is, those "individual liberty" people who want to engage in risky behavior all come running to the government teat when they get hurt. Then they lawyer up and go boo-hooing after everybody else.

 

[cerich]

bull.... very few behave like you describe

 

[cwhite6]

[Quote Spd135 As California seems to be the bright and shining example of dumb, ignorant and stupid stuff this post didn't surprise me at all. Must be something in the water out there. More "nanny stateism" Individual rights means "you need to mind your own damn business about how I dive unless it personally places you where you don't want to be" Then, you use your personal responsibility and get out of that situation.]



He's got a point - It might be something in the water. Such as, a lack of crude oil. Any ideas about how much Katrina and Deepwater Horizon cost the rest of us nanny-staters?

As far as Deepwater, BP has paid for the vast majority of it. Kind of dumb to point out disasters. CA has had its share with earthquakes and wildfires. That is not the point of this thread and name calling diminishes your argument. He was wrong to dismiss an entire state with a nanny staters insult also.

 

[cwhite6]

Yup, California is the birthplace of dumb, ignorant and stupid stuff like recreational scuba diving. Unlike Florida and Hawaii, we're not forced to tow a stupid flag when we dive because we don't live in a nanny state. And we also don't live in an ex-bayou "protected" by levees sure to fail in the big storm.

Just sayin'.

I was kind of surprised Sunday that I did not need a dive flag when dived at Casino Point. Be kinda hard with all the kelp anyway. Also, I don't live in an ex-bayou either and I live in Louisiana. You sound like my Aunt from Kansas that thinks we all ride boats to work and raise alligators. BTW, I would take a hurricane over an earthquake any day. But neither of our points have anything to do with this thread.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Yup, California is the birthplace of dumb, ignorant and stupid stuff like recreational scuba diving. Unlike Florida and Hawaii, we're not forced to tow a stupid flag when we dive because we don't live in a nanny state. And we also don't live in an ex-bayou "protected" by levees sure to fail in the big storm.

Just sayin'.

We have water and hurricanes, y'all have earthquakes and wildfires..............your point? BTW the levees were built by people (Gubmint) that thought they were smart enough to protect everyone from themselves. I stand by my statement.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

So you feel that you are free to cost me money, but I'm NOT free to not pay it?

Ok, Don Quixote, what have you been forced to pay besides the personal windmill you seem to be chasing? If you have personally paid for something that everyone else doesn't have to pay I will gladly give you yours and apologize. Higher prices for gear doesn't count cause we pay higher retail for shoplifters, higher insurance for bad drivers....the lost goes on.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

[Quote Spd135 As California seems to be the bright and shining example of dumb, ignorant and stupid stuff this post didn't surprise me at all. Must be something in the water out there. More "nanny stateism" Individual rights means "you need to mind your own damn business about how I dive unless it personally places you where you don't want to be" Then, you use your personal responsibility and get out of that situation.]



He's got a point - It might be something in the water. Such as, a lack of crude oil. Any ideas about how much Katrina and Deepwater Horizon cost the rest of us nanny-staters?

Kinda like earthquakes, wildfires, illegal immigrants,.................We all have stuff.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

As far as Deepwater, BP has paid for the vast majority of it. Kind of dumb to point out disasters. CA has had its share with earthquakes and wildfires. That is not the point of this thread and name calling diminishes your argument. He was wrong to dismiss an entire state with a nanny staters insult also.

My apologies for the broad stroke to all Californians. I meant the stereotypical Californian in my comments and yes, sometimes I stereotype when there is some truth involved. I understand all Californians are not that way and I feel badly that they have to deal with the rest.

 

[DCBC]

Some pretty savvy people here on SB have recently defended the principle of "Individual Rights", making the point that divers have the right to dive any way they like, as long as they don't harm others.

...But does it really apply to scuba divers? Do we have the "individual right" to dive in a reckless manner because it's nobody else's business? If there is an accident or fatality, is it true that it doesn't harm others?

Frankly, I find this argument to be childish, arrogant, and wrong. Childish because it fails to recognize the inevitable consequences of an accident on other people. Arrogant because the average scuba diver is no Thomas Edison. Wrong because the implicit assumption - of "no harm to others" - is virtually impossible.

So let's get real here: If a scuba diver is hurt doing something reckless or stupid, it affects their friends, families, fellow divers, rescue folks, medical folks, insurance folks, dive businesses, and the reputation of the dive community. Do we have the "right" to do that?

From your perspective, I guess I'm "childish, arrogant and wrong," as I believe anyone has the right to dive. The smart ones will receive training and will dive within their safety envelope. As long as it unregulated, that's it and I for one don't support sport diver regulation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

speaking of freedom to dive make sure this time to schedule some time for us to go diving when I'm up there for the show.

For sure ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)