Bitterness of Scuba Instructors

[freewillie]

People who are rude are quick to tell people whose feelings they hurt that they're too sensitive.

If the majority of members of SB feel that the harshness of some of the posts here is not severe enough to warrant taking offense, then perhaps those of us who do should just start a separate, kinder and gentler scuba forum.

Matt,

This is now the second thread you are engaging in where you are complaining about the rudeness of some of the posters. There is a thread split for the Unable to Breath thread simply to argue this point. At least in the Accidents and Incidents forum a level of civility is asked for, but given the nature of analyzing accidents some opinions may be overly harsh. That may or may not be the case, but you seem to be taking exception to the verbage of some of the responses.

In the New to Diving and Basic Discussion there is a special rule not to "flame" the responders. But as the old saying goes you can please some of the people some of the time, you may even please most of the people most of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Besides, in a democracy, the intent is to prevent the majority from dominating the minority. In otherwords, the minority should be protected even if their position is unpopular. The majority of posters here do abide by the rules, but you can't prevent the odd snarky response from sneaking in.

But what is considered rude is a little subjective. What is rude to one person may be humerous to another. The closer to home the comments are, especially when criticizing another diver's skills/or lack there of may be seen as a personal attack. Sometime they are, but in other instances may just be comments to help improve another's awareness.

May be a little like medical school. Some attendings were really nice, some were a little mean. There are the small number of just completely over the top ridiculous attendings. Some doctors were good, others not so skilled. I always had a saying, "some doctors will teach you how to practice medicine, some are examples of how not to practice medicine. The wisdom is in telling the difference between the two."

 

[lv2dive]

Why not? Is it inappropriate to stand up for yourself in a group? Is it inappropriate to stand up for others in a group?

You seem to feel that I am being inappropriate by observing that impoliteness exists on SB, rather than just accepting it and trying to fit in. This idea is really foreign to me; I'm kind of taken aback by it, frankly.

Is it inappropriate to stand up for yourself in a group? No
Is it inappropriate to stand up for others in a group? No
If all it was, was an "observation," I'd have no problems. It's more than that. I've not got the time nor the inclination to go back through all of your posts to pull out all the quotes but the title of thread itself speaks to more than a simple "observation." You certainly don't have to accept anything and/or to try to fit in... what I did - personally - was accept that the people on this board - just like the people in the world in general - are not going to behave exactly like I'd prefer 100% of the time, and rather than try to change 200,000+ people, I thought I'd bend a little myself. I'm not trying to fit in, I'm just trying to enjoy the board for what it is. But hey, that's just me.

Let's say you're a guest at someone's house, and the husband starts yelling at the wife. I think most people in this situation would say something like, "Hey, man, chill." I don't think they'd say to themselves, "I'm a guest in this house, it's not my place to expect them to change."

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your post.

You are probably not misinterpreting my post. But you ARE drawing an analogy that doesn't fly... I mean, come on. We are talking a board that numbers membership in the hundreds of thousands - not visiting a family that numbers in the single digits. A more appropriate analogy would be going to a major league sporting event and getting on the mike and telling everyone at that event that you think it's inappropriate for them to "boo" the opposing team because YOU don't consider it polite. Is that an unreasonable analogy? No more so than the one you created, and more realistic from a sheer numbers perspective.

Everyone has a right to their opinion - and you certainly have a right to yours. And you certainly have the right to voice it. By the same token, I have the right to voice mine - and I still don't understand what has been said that is so egregious that requires this level of dissection.

I mean - there is a vehicle available for anyone to report what they consider an inappropriate post - the "Report Post" icon/button. Why is it that one person - who just started reading and posting on this board - has a better feel for what is appropriate - than the moderators and people who have been here for years?

 

[ferris213]

You seem to feel that I am being inappropriate by observing that impoliteness exists on SB, rather than just accepting it and trying to fit in. This idea is really foreign to me; I'm kind of taken aback by it, frankly.

Scubaboard is a big beast, and you have done an admirable job in highlighting aspects of it that you feel could be improved, however if you don't accept it for what it is and try to fit in... well, you might not fit in.

Let's say you're a guest at someone's house, and the husband starts yelling at the wife. I think most people in this situation would say something like, "Hey, man, chill." I don't think they'd say to themselves, "I'm a guest in this house, it's not my place to expect them to change."

I think this analogy is flawed for a few reasons, as katepnatl mentioned, the numbers don't compare. Also I don't think anyone has been 'shouting' at you here, If you felt the husband started speaking rudely, but no one else in the room did, would you still be so quick to tell him how to behave in his own house?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but at some point I feel you will need to acknowledge that the problems you perceive might be yours, and not scubaboards.

I hope you keep posting and participating, at 340 posts and 150 odd likes you must be doing a lot right, but things written on the internet are not worth worrying about. There's enough stuff in the real world for that... as a doctor I thought you would see that more than most.

 

[FPDocMatt]

To me, the fact that this thread is 18 pages and you're still following/posting shows that you might be a bit too sensitive with these things.

I think this should read, "The fact that you're allowing us to continue beating up on you shows that you're a glutton for punishment."

 

[ferris213]

Wow, I'm sorry you feel that way, it wasn't my intention.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[FPDocMatt]

Scubaboard is a big beast, and you have done an admirable job in highlighting aspects of it that you feel could be improved, however if you don't accept it for what it is and try to fit in... well, you might not fit in.

Yes, I'm beginning to get the message now.

When I first started pointing out the rudeness trend of SB there were at least as many people agreeing with me as disagreeing with me. But lately I'm getting a lot more disagreement on the subject, and now people are telling me I may not belong here.

Which is the same as saying that I'm not wanted here.

And if I did continue to participate in a forum where I'm not wanted, I really would be a troll (as several have called me).

And frankly, being criticized (now by 2 posters) for standing up for the wife who's being yelled at by the husband--well, I think you're right, I really don't belong here.

 

[BluewaterSail]

I think that there is something else influencing what my be taken as "rude" comments. This is not a cocktail party where we are exchanging small talk about the weather. Many of the conversations are about topics that in one way or another affect our ability NOT TO DIE OR BECOME SEVERELY INJURED in an environment that by all logic we should not be able to survive in.

Its only our training that prepares us to understand how to survive in this environment. I find that for myself personally, if I am thinking that someone is incurring unnecessary risk to themselves because they don't understand something that I feel needs to be understood to safely do what they are doing or want to do, my emotions are immediatly elevated, and I feel like grabbing them and shaking some sense into them.

My guess is that professional instructors and DMs might also have an elevated emotion in such cases. No?

If you see a little kid about to run into a busy street, you don't talk nice to him, you yell with everything you have, and if needed, grab him. It's an instinctive response. And I bet, after you save the kid's life, someone will be thinking that you shouldn't have yelled at him like that. After all, he's just a little kid that we should be nice to.

Yes, the gut reactions get a little harsh some times, and its good to remind folks periodically not to scare the newbies away. But in the end, in many cases, a strong dose of reality might be the best thing for them.

What I worry about more than scaring the newbies away, is scaring away some of the "rough around the edges" experienced folks that I can learn alot from, who might find that being so careful about what they say, and how they say it, just makes it not fun any more. :depressed:

If I am going to learn something valuable, and the payment that I need to make is to recieve some inappropriate comments along with the useful comments, I still think that I am getting a good deal.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Yes, I'm beginning to get the message now.

When I first started pointing out the rudeness trend of SB there were at least as many people agreeing with me as disagreeing with me. But lately I'm getting a lot more disagreement on the subject, and now people are telling me I may not belong here.

Which is the same as saying that I'm not wanted here.

And if I did continue to participate in a forum where I'm not wanted, I really would be a troll (as several have called me).

And frankly, being criticized (now by 2 posters) for standing up for the wife who's being yelled at by the husband--well, I think you're right, I really don't belong here.

Matt, please don't feel that you are not welcome here. However, you may not be able to make everyone behave as you think they should. At least not all the time.

So the question is if you can tolerate the way it is or not. If you feel that dealing with the rough talkin makes getting all of the valuable information not worthwhile, then that is your choice.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that you are a valuable member who I hope will find a way to be more accepting of the way that some people communicate.

 

[buddhasummer]

Yes, I'm beginning to get the message now.

When I first started pointing out the rudeness trend of SB there were at least as many people agreeing with me as disagreeing with me. But lately I'm getting a lot more disagreement on the subject, and now people are telling me I may not belong here.

Which is the same as saying that I'm not wanted here.

And if I did continue to participate in a forum where I'm not wanted, I really would be a troll (as several have called me).

And frankly, being criticized (now by 2 posters) for standing up for the wife who's being yelled at by the husband--well, I think you're right, I really don't belong here.

Matt, this may be taken as condescending or patronizing but it is not my intention. You are clearly an intelligent and thoughtful person, we all look at the world with different glasses as Im sure you are aware. I've been following this thread, but in all honesty am not sure why I am still doing so as I think its going round and round. I did not take ferris213 post #183 as saying your are not wanted here. I also haven't read any posts that I perceived as "criticizing" you re "standing up for the wife". My point again is that perhaps things you have taken issue with were not intended to be taken so. I would feel a little sad if you or anyone came on here and felt that the treatment they received was bad enough that they felt they had no choice but to leave. I may not agree with everything you or anyone else on this board says but I welcome a different view and opinion, it's how we learn and grow. I don't mean to be over familiar, I don't know know you Matt other than the small part of yourself that you have shared on this board so I could be way off, I suspect you are a sensitive person by nature, not to be confused with too sensitive, and this is a good thing. Not everyone is so mindful about how they write their posts and how what they have written may affect the other person.

All my life I have been continually told I am too sensitive and quite possibly I am, it's very easy for me to misinterpret someones words or actions depending on how they are delivered. I have found it particularly difficult on the internet and continue to work very hard at not reading too much into things. For me some people post using language that I think is respectful and gentle, some do not. I would not dream of leaving this forum because of an occasional harsh response to something I have posted. There are some amazing people on this board and there is so much to learn from many of them. Of course if you believe you have been/are being treated badly then it is your choice to leave but I think that would be a shame.

I have posted this with only the best intentions and hope there is something useful in there for you.

PS If I knew the couple/husband well I would also say "chill out man". If I didn't know them very well and it got in anyway physical I would step in without hesitation, all 5'7" and 116lbs.

 

[ve6raj]

So 19 pages and I have a burning question...
Do you choose your tank bangers based on their colour, the loudness of the sound or their pitch and timbre?