Fatigue after deco dives

[HowardE]

No, I haven't had any other symptoms.

No other symptoms? I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that you are probably just fatigued.

My other advice is to ask a real doctor either here on SB in the Ask Dr. Deco forum, or on the phone. Only fatigue and no other symptoms would suggest to me that you're fine, or what some may call sub-clinical DCS? But I'm not a doctor, and I didn't see any responses from any doctors. While people are giving you advice that works for them. The rest of the picture is this:

What is your physical condition? Do you exercise regularly? Lift Weights? Cardio? Are scuba tanks heavy for you? Are you carrying doubles? How much physical exertion is required to exit/enter the water? What was your Hydration? Did you eat a good breakfast? Were you Warm / Cold on your decompression? Did you have alcohol the night before? Did you sleep well?

I see you mention you've been cold on the hangs, and that certainly should make you add time to your hang, as vasoconstriction will reduce offgassing. Sounds like you may need to look at better thermal protection as well. Being cold for a half hour makes me tired also.

There are many factors that effect the body. Once we think in our minds that we may be doing the wrong thing (decompression wise) then we over think it, and potentially work ourselves into a "oh crap I might be bent" semi panic state, and make things worse.

While there's nothing wrong with some of the overly conservative advice others are giving you. The answer may be in the questions that I've posed to you here. You could be doing everything "right" by the book (deco wise) but not doing everything right for your body, which the "book" doesn't necessarily take into account.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'd go with Howard's advice.

I've had plenty of fatigue and sometimes 'flu-like symptoms' after diving. None were DCS related. Scuba can be more demanding than we realize ..having fun is a big distraction from the effort we put in. Quite often I'm pooped after diving - deep down tired... I put a lot into teaching though. Early mornings, late nights... very active underwater... and often long (overnight) journeys to/from the training location. It all helps to diminish the immune system.

Another issue I had was allergy. For a period of several months I developed increasingly severe 'flu and cold' after every stint of diving in Subic Bay. It only happened in that location - which gave some indication there was a 'trend'. My partner, an ENT Dr, came to the conclusion I must have an allergy to something in the local water - it was manifesting via my sinuses. It was most apparent and rapid onset whenever I got water up my nose... which happens frequently on technical wreck courses (no mask/inverted drills etc). Treatment with nasal steroids did a lot to help... as does a saline sinus rinse after each dive.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Are you taking any fluids before and during your dive? You could be getting dehydrated, which could be causing you to not off gas effectively.
many people are chronicly dehydrated.
Try diving with a hydration system and take in 20 ounces an hour or more. Enough to need to pee every hour, at least.
Can't hurt, might help.

That's a great point and the other thing I do differently than in the distant past. I drink a lot of water on my cave diving trips starting the day before we start diving. The difference is that on the way down I-95 we might make one or two stops between NC and N FL, but on the way back we end up having to stop a lot due to the difference in fluid volume.

Way back in the pre pee valve days, it was common for me to avoid fluids prior to a dive and that was I think extremely counter productive.

Oddly enough I also noted that my scores on the rifle range improved when I upped my water intake. A couple hours in a shooting jack on the range in the south in the summer takes a lot of water out of you.

---------- Post Merged at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:44 AM ----------

Thanks DA. Right now I do all of my deco at the 20 ft stop. I don't do any at 10 ft. I may start doing that just to see how I feel and if it makes a difference. We usually stay in the water for 5-10 min before getting out but I do then immediately start carrying my sidemount tanks back up.

I don't like to stay at 20' for the entire time, especially when it creeps up to around 20 minute or so, especially after a long dive with a high PPO2 on the bottom and a travel gas/first deco gas that ups the PPO2 in the mid water as well. However I also seldom do all the 10' stop as shallow as 10 ft and generally creep up to the stop over the course of 2-3 minutes, and in some N FL caverns it is often convenient to hold around 15' and I may end up doing all the 10 ft time there.

 

[billgraham]

Here's a quick tip since it seems like you're doing cave diving--most places in Florida, the spring water is fine to drink. There are bottling plants at a lot of them. Take your reg out of your mouth and drink some water during the dive. I personally don't think you can stay warm enough in a wetsuit for a two hour dive in 68 degree water unless you're a walrus. The medical people can chime in here, but fatigue is a symptom of mild DCS. Everyone is different and I agree with slowing down the ascent rate and adding some padding when you're on O-2. What's an extra ten minutes in the grand scheme of things? Play with the fish for a while, good luck!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Most of my deco dives have been at Ginnie. I've done a couple at Little River. It could be that my dive times went from 40-45 minutes to 80-90 min. Since I don't have a drysuit yet the extra time and energy I expend by shivering may have something to do with how tired I feel.

AJ's point on cold is very valid. I prefer a wet suit in N FL, MX and other warm water locations, but on a cold day during what they call "winter" in N FL I have to take care to ensure I re-warm between dives. Last winter I did 3 dives at Ginnie on a cold day and got chilled to the point of shivering on the last dive and had very cold hands (no gloves of course - it's a cave). Subsequently, I developed a set of itchy and slightly purply mottled colored hands that night at dinner that fortunately resolved by morning.

I won't call it skin bends exactly, but I'm not sure what else it might have been and it's obvious that staying warmer would have been really smart. An issue too with being cold and shivering is that the onset is normally when you stop swimming on deco. So in addition to the restriction of the capillaries that occurs when you are cold negatively impacting your ability to offs gas, you are busily creating bubbles and are strongly motivated to get out of the water ASAP, so padding the deco a bit is a lot less attractive. That will leave you sitting at Floyd's looking at your hands and saying "oh ****..." and thinking next December you'll be diving dry again.

Dry suits are expensive but you can find some great used suit deals. Short of that, consider adding a 5/3 or 7/5 hooded vest over your suit. It will reduce the water exchange at the neck and add some more insulation over your torso. And be sure you are wearing a hood, even with a dry suit as you lose a lot of heat through your head.

 

[Mike2Fst]

So many contributing factors here. I have experienced the same feeling, especially after a deep air dive and using 50% and O2 for deco gasses. I had added 32% earlier in the ascent (in addition to 50% and O2) and found I had less fatigue. Later I found that Trimix further decreased that fatigue factor. Continued the experiment with diving wet vs dry, this did not have the large impact I had anticipated on the fatigue factor. Other contributions are time at depth, deco obligation, hydration, fitness level, etc.. So, with my results, I now dive Trimix even at shallower depths which will require deco time. Pricey, but worth it to me. Anyway, best wished on your continued diving adventures and kudos on knowing when to take a break on the driving and staying safe.

 

[cerich]

You can't do good deco if you are cold. You really can't. Your next investment should be a drysuit and then install a p valve.

I have no idea what type of deco training and from whom you are taking it...but it matters.

Consider getting tested for a PFO, there is a new easier and less expensive test out there now, if you think this whole cave (and N FL cave IS deco) diving will be something you'll keep doing it's worth knowing if you have one.

 

[tracydr]

Shivering is bad. Very bad. Perfusion is compromised when you're cold like that. Also, the ascent from 20ft to the surface is pretty important. Shoot for 3ft/min and see what happens.

I agree. Did they not go over this in class? A lot?
Even when diving recreational levels and Non-decompression dives, getting cold can be dangerous. Especially in caves. It can cause you to make poor choices by decreasing your judgement, for one thing.

I do know that getting chilled, even in a non-diving environment, leaves me incredibly fatigued and takes me many hours to recover. I've gotten that way fox hunting and skiing a number of times.

Are you using a 7ml? We used to use a farmer John with 14 Mls on the core in the Puget Sound while diving wet. Make sure you have a thick hood.
i understand that a drysuit is a huge investment, but honestly, I think it's a safety issue when cave and decompressin diving.

I was shivering the other day on while helping a 20 minute OW class. I had a 3ml and everybody else had shorties and board shorts. ( all guys) I had to change to a 5 mil for the second and third dives. Felt silly but I had been shaking, hard, within minutes of descending. I know that's not safe and my judgment can be clouded by cold.

 

[TracyN]

No other symptoms? I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that you are probably just fatigued.

My other advice is to ask a real doctor either here on SB in the Ask Dr. Deco forum, or on the phone. Only fatigue and no other symptoms would suggest to me that you're fine, or what some may call sub-clinical DCS? But I'm not a doctor, and I didn't see any responses from any doctors. While people are giving you advice that works for them. The rest of the picture is this:

What is your physical condition? Do you exercise regularly? Lift Weights? Cardio? Are scuba tanks heavy for you? Are you carrying doubles? How much physical exertion is required to exit/enter the water? What was your Hydration? Did you eat a good breakfast? Were you Warm / Cold on your decompression? Did you have alcohol the night before? Did you sleep well?

I see you mention you've been cold on the hangs, and that certainly should make you add time to your hang, as vasoconstriction will reduce offgassing. Sounds like you may need to look at better thermal protection as well. Being cold for a half hour makes me tired also.

There are many factors that effect the body. Once we think in our minds that we may be doing the wrong thing (decompression wise) then we over think it, and potentially work ourselves into a "oh crap I might be bent" semi panic state, and make things worse.

While there's nothing wrong with some of the overly conservative advice others are giving you. The answer may be in the questions that I've posed to you here. You could be doing everything "right" by the book (deco wise) but not doing everything right for your body, which the "book" doesn't necessarily take into account.

Thanks for the advice. Physically I am in very good shape. I am a marathon runner and I participate in martial arts regularly. I'm not overweight and for the most part I try to eat right. I rarely drink and I don't smoke. The only thing I can see me doing that might change anything is to definitely drink more fluids and get more rest. As far as thermoregulation, until I can find a drysuit I now use a full 3mm wetsuit underneath a full 7mm. 10mm of neoprene keeps me pretty warm until the deco stop. Even then the amount of shivering I do has been cut in half from where it used to be.

I am a sidemount diver so I have to carry my tanks to and from the water but even with that there is no great exertion. Never once did the possibility of subclinical DCS cross my mind. Next time it happens if it happens I will try huffing the oxygen just to see if it improves the level of fatigue.

---------- Post Merged at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:20 PM ----------

You can't do good deco if you are cold. You really can't. Your next investment should be a drysuit and then install a p valve.

I have no idea what type of deco training and from whom you are taking it...but it matters.

Consider getting tested for a PFO, there is a new easier and less expensive test out there now, if you think this whole cave (and N FL cave IS deco) diving will be something you'll keep doing it's worth knowing if you have one.

There is no need to go looking for a problem where one most likely doesn't exist. If something does happen, I'll worry about it then. Until then I'll try not to worry about something that may or may not be. I run ultramarathons so I really don't think there is anything wrong with my heart. I think I have a solution to my cold situation that will work until I get a dry suit. 10mm of neoprene! Kept me pretty warm on my last dive right up until the deco stop and even then my shivering was cut in half.

 

[JamesK]

10mm of neoprene? Holy crap! You are going to be like the kid in "A Christmas Story"!!!!! Lol