My Gear list thus far - tell me where I can save some money

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The problem with the Apeks/Scubapro hype is that the industry long ago made the points they are making invalid. How long has it been since a significant advancement has been made in regulators? I believe Hog is one of the few brands with any real innovation recently, but when you get right down to the nitty-gritty Apeks regulators are no longer special as the design hasn't changed, just been fine tuned. At that point in a market it's very easy for a newer company to come in and provide the same exact product at a lower cost because they don't have to deal with all the overhead the company built over 30 years that's now weighing it down. (All companies tend toward porking up with overhead over time) This happens in every industry wherein the early innovators create a great name that often doesn't live up to the hype once the innovations have become stale. A great example of that is the car industry previously mentioned. Top non-truck sales are almost exclusively Toyota, Honda, and Nissan because Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler failed to innovate anything and succumbed to huge overhead (factory line workers making 70 bucks an hour for ex.). Because of the overhead Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler started cutting on quality or raising prices. Think of how many years those companies had nothing to compete with the Accord/Civic and Camry/Corolla. That's really not an unfair analysis of scuba regulators at the moment. That's why HOG is going to become a big deal as long as Chris doesn't change his business model.

So to 616fun the problem isn't that Apeks regulators aren't even a hair better than HOG or whatever, it's that their name is worth more than the product they are selling now which means the market is going to slowly move away from their products to competitors like HOG who are providing an equal quality product at a much reduced price with better customer service. Apeks and Scubapro should really be on notice, but it's rare that a top company sees the writing on the wall before they are overtaken by an upstart company. Their overhead for an equal quality product is going to cause them serious problems just like it does in every other industry. If it weren't for the entrenched position of many LDS due to the way contracts work with these large companies I suspect this would be changing faster, but with online sales and how every year more people use the internet to do their own research this business model is going to fail.

BTW you can't argue with pharma as helpful to your cause either. Big Pharma companies rely on innovation to stay in business because every time their patents run out they lose their sales to generics. Why pay 110-300 dollars for a drug walmart will sell you for 10 or 25 with a generic? Thats a regular part of the process in big pharma, and that's why there is always a new cutting edge drug for everything coming out. Profit for many of these companies demands innovation or their overhead will not allow them to stay in business.

Business is business is business.
 
The problem with the Apeks/Scubapro hype is that the industry long ago made the points they are making invalid. How long has it been since a significant advancement has been made in regulators? I believe Hog is one of the few brands with any real innovation recently, but when you get right down to the nitty-gritty Apeks regulators are no longer special as the design hasn't changed, just been fine tuned. At that point in a market it's very easy for a newer company to come in and provide the same exact product at a lower cost because they don't have to deal with all the overhead the company built over 30 years that's now weighing it down. (All companies tend toward porking up with overhead over time) This happens in every industry wherein the early innovators create a great name that often doesn't live up to the hype once the innovations have become stale. A great example of that is the car industry previously mentioned. Top non-truck sales are almost exclusively Toyota, Honda, and Nissan because Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler failed to innovate anything and succumbed to huge overhead (factory line workers making 70 bucks an hour for ex.). Because of the overhead Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler started cutting on quality or raising prices. Think of how many years those companies had nothing to compete with the Accord/Civic and Camry/Corolla. That's really not an unfair analysis of scuba regulators at the moment. That's why HOG is going to become a big deal as long as Chris doesn't change his business model.

So to 616fun the problem isn't that Apeks regulators aren't even a hair better than HOG or whatever, it's that their name is worth more than the product they are selling now which means the market is going to slowly move away from their products to competitors like HOG who are providing an equal quality product at a much reduced price with better customer service. Apeks and Scubapro should really be on notice, but it's rare that a top company sees the writing on the wall before they are overtaken by an upstart company. Their overhead for an equal quality product is going to cause them serious problems just like it does in every other industry. If it weren't for the entrenched position of many LDS due to the way contracts work with these large companies I suspect this would be changing faster, but with online sales and how every year more people use the internet to do their own research this business model is going to fail.

BTW you can't argue with pharma as helpful to your cause either. Big Pharma companies rely on innovation to stay in business because every time their patents run out they lose their sales to generics. Why pay 110-300 dollars for a drug walmart will sell you for 10 or 25 with a generic? Thats a regular part of the process in big pharma, and that's why there is always a new cutting edge drug for everything coming out. Profit for many of these companies demands innovation or their overhead will not allow them to stay in business.

Business is business is business.

You've obviously missed my entire point. Apeks at the price they are being offered ($369) is a steal. If I was stating buy Apeks at retail ($600) then your entire post would have merit.....but it doesn't.

In regards to pharma - you are speaking out both sides of your mouth. You claim that large reg manufacturers provide little innovation (which I agree) then go on to state the innovation is how pharma thrives (I agree again). So what's the point? Basically pharma has to innovate to stay alive and reg companies produce the same over and over. The reality is how much innovation is there to be had in reg development? Regs aren't rocket science. They are a pretty simple mechanical device that does their job incredibly well.

BTW - what are these grand innovations Hog is bringing forth. Companies like Hog are like generic providers in pharma. They let the big companies spend to do the R&D, then produce a similar product using those innovations. There's nothing wrong with that model - but understand it doesn't survive without the massive R&D of the big boys.
 
You've obviously missed my entire point. Apeks at the price they are being offered ($369) is a steal. If I was stating buy Apeks at retail ($600) then your entire post would have merit.....but it doesn't.

In regards to pharma - you are speaking out both sides of your mouth. You claim that large reg manufacturers provide little innovation (which I agree) then go on to state the innovation is how pharma thrives (I agree again). So what's the point? Basically pharma has to innovate to stay alive and reg companies produce the same over and over. The reality is how much innovation is there to be had in reg development? Regs aren't rocket science. They are a pretty simple mechanical device that does their job incredibly well.

BTW - what are these grand innovations Hog is bringing forth. Companies like Hog are like generic providers in pharma. They let the big companies spend to do the R&D, then produce a similar product using those innovations. There's nothing wrong with that model - but understand it doesn't survive without the massive R&D of the big boys.

The chroming on their regs is different. Done more environmentally friendly.

Also my point about pharma was to refute your use of pharma as some sort of example as to it validating Apeks regs as some sort of Godsend to scuba at this point. You are right, regs aren't rocket science, but still why pay so much for Apeks when a complete hog setup is still cheaper and provides the same service in all environments (as compared to a complete Apeks setup)? How is the minutae of difference worth even a dollar more? That's really my question at the end of the day.
 
Jim has me looking into the Hollis DG02.

Why not the Hollis DG03? DiveGearExpress has a great deal on them right now. The computer is $249 and the DSS bungee mount is $+19 with free shipping.

DG03 Dive Computer and Digital Gauge by Hollis Gear - Dive Gear Express

It's a nice computer that can do pretty much everything except trimix. Unless you can find a great deal on a DG02 that I'm unaware of, the DG03 would be much more future proofed without spending much money.
 
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Originally Posted by evad

And manufactured by Beuchat.

I don't think that slight will work with those of us who know a thing or two about quality. Beuchat is the original inventor of the Jet Fin, the Arbalete speargun, and many other innovative gear. They make excellent scuba equipment.


I can't fathom how you manged to construe that as a "slight." There was no "slight" on my part.
 
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Grab a Uwatec Digital Depth Gauge for 100 bucks and be set for life.

Are the batteries replaceable on that thing now? I had to toss one a few years ago. Otherwise not sure how you are set for life?
 
Why not the Hollis DG03? DiveGearExpress has a great deal on them right now. The computer is $249 and the DSS bungee mount is $+19 with free shipping.

DG03 Dive Computer and Digital Gauge by Hollis Gear - Dive Gear Express

It's a nice computer that can do pretty much everything except trimix. Unless you can find a great deal on a DG02 that I'm unaware of, the DG03 would be much more future proofed without spending much money.

Good point Chris. I forgot about the 03. Another good option.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
 
Are the batteries replaceable on that thing now? I had to toss one a few years ago. Otherwise not sure how you are set for life?

Figure of speech. They last about for about 10 years of heavy diving, which is pretty sweet. They also grow with you, should you decide to get into more advanced diving. The tec2g does have a user-replaceable battery, though. That's a good choice, too.
 
The Hollis DG03 is about the same price, has a gauge mode and is good down to 400'. It does eat batteries faster, I'll give you that.

Rec divers generally don't cut tables and use bottom timers so I don't suggest this. A full featured multilevel dive computer that can be turned to gauge mode one day is a more realistic choice. It doesn't rule out the possibility of getting into different dive planning techniques.
 
I can't fathom how you manged to construe that as a "slight." There was no "slight" on my part.

My bad. I thought you were Dissing the Beuchat manufactured Dive-Rite Hurricane.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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