Worst trend in Scuba Diving instruction many of us have ever seen...Avoid Groupon!

[ams511]

Reviving the thread to give a students perspective.

Your OW experience sounds like mine, except I was certified before there was a Groupon and before there was the World Wide Web.

Dive shops make money with new divers primarily on equipment not training and it is a numbers game. Out of so many divers they expect a large percentage will buy the training materials and the basic package (mask, fins, snorkel) and a smaller percentage will go to purchase a full gear package.

What I am reading is many vendors, not just dive shops, dislike Groupon (and the like) because of the customers they attract, namely cheapskates. The purpose of Groupon is to generate repeat business for the vendor but most Groupon customers are only in for the deal. For example you mentioned you had a good experience with Dive Shop 1 but instead of finishing the course with them you went for another deal with Dive Shop 2.

Dive shops that train you always believe you have a duty to buy from them. If you don't you are disloyal. Heck the shop that trained me would let you even use a BC or regulator for training if you did not purchase it from them. Also the amount of attention you got in class was directly proportional to how much you purchased. I was crap because like you I had the basic gear, the funny part was that in the end I bought the most gear. What could be happening is that your instructor is paid a commission on what he sells and realized he is not going to make anything on your group.

Look you did the math, did you really think you could buy quality instruction for under $4 an hour?

 

[robertarak]

This is true of non-groupon classes as well. For many shops it's a numbers game. If they aren't getting the numbers using their current methods, then they have to try non-traditional means to get butts in the door. Chances are, if a shop feels compelled to use Groupon, then they are not getting enough customers as it is. In that case, the impatience and the bad customer service might already be a part of their culture. I've said this joke before in other threads, but the biggest difference between a large pizza and a scuba instructor is that the former can feed a family of four.

If you really want to learn scuba, pay for a private or semi-private class. I haven't met one person who regretted spending the extra dough and it's more than likely that they will never feel a need to sell their gear on Craigslist.

I think I'll quote Net Doc on my website.

 

[The Chairman]

I think I'll quote Net Doc on my website.

Not a prob!

Scuba instruction has been a loss leader for a lot of shops for a long time and it's my opinion that this has hurt the entire industry. The internet eviscerated the gear sales cash cow that a lot of these shops relied upon to make ends meet. Now, they have to rethink how to survive and prosper with lower mark-ups and fewer sales or go under. Some see Groupon as a way of creating much needed traffic and hopefully some cash flow. In reality, they often get quite busy for a short time, but it's an empty busy with very little cash flow to make up for the extra work. It's frustrating to work longer and harder only to come up with far less cash than you needed to make it work. That frustration is bound to slip out from time to time and could very well become endemic to the shop. That's really bad when it starts to chase off your current customer base.

Every shop that I have personally known to try Groupon has been disappointed with the results. The average Groupon buyer resists add-on sales with a vengeance which is what most shops are counting on to make it work. Read ghazifarooq's post and you'll see the quintessential attitude of the average Groupon buyer. No, there's nothing wrong or insidious with that attitude, but it's not a shop's target market. In fact, it's the very attitude that most shops need and want to avoid. Scuba is not a poor man's sport. It takes a commitment of time, money and energy to make it work and have fun with it. Marketing Scuba on price alone is a fool's errand and that's what Groupon is all about. I would suggest that there are far more effective and lucrative ways to get butts in your door if you'll only start thinking outside of the box. Here's a few ideas just off the top of my head:

• Market to the youth! Sponsor a BSA Venture Crew through your shop. You'll gain instant penetration into the local high schools and access the moms and dads through their kids.
• Start getting social with your media! There are a lot of shops misusing ScubaBoard and Facebook. Get some training on how to cash in without looking like this guy => Increase your Twitter followers by eleventy-billion in seconds
• Market to/through popular local radio stations. Sponsor/train a local DJ or even TV celebrity.

There are a ton of fun ways to increase traffic to your store that do not require you to give it all away at the same time. Fun is our best marketing tool. If you're only selling Scuba and not selling the fun of Scuba then your results will be weak. It's all about features and benefits. If you don't understand the difference go to the most successful shop (not scuba) in your area and ask them to explain how they market themselves. Scuba is a feature, while fun is the benefit. Until you can fully understand and embrace that concept, you just won't be able to market Scuba effectively.

For those considering how to dive, the converse is true. Go with the shop that's selling you on the fun of Scuba. If the main selling point is low cost, you are not going to have nearly the fun you should have. Be real. You're investing a lot in terms of time, effort and money already and for what? To have the maximum amount of fun possible. Go with the shop centered on having fun and you'll get more than your money's worth. Yes, expect to pay more and possibly significantly more because they won't cut corners to make it cheap, but be prepared to have your socks knocked off with the fun that is Scuba.

 

[flots am]

R

• do the math. if the groupon is 150, groupon take 75. the shop gets 75. for this amount, the instructor needs to teach 6 hours of class, 6 hours of pool, 6 hours of lake. at a minimum 18 hours. some fee must apply for course materials and some fee goes to the scuba company (padi,ssi,sdi). so he probably makes less than $4 an hour - if anything. no wonder he does not give a s*** about giving you any of his time.

I'm not current with PADI standards, but believe you didn't actually get the minimum amount of pool time they require. You paid half-price, but AFAIK, only got about half a class.

The dives in the lake were your "Open Water" dives and don't count towards training.

flots

 

[tamas970]

... Scuba is not a poor man's sport.

That's good news for the environment. Let's hope, these mass-babtism events won't happen everywhere. One can be cost-sensitive (#1: read reviews, #2: dive at reasonable costs) or just scrimpy - the latter has no place in the diving society. (And any societies btw... we work for money and pay for other's work)

I am a new diver, and even after 15 dives and just started to realize the complexity of the work/capital investment behind a trip: #1: running a shop real estate and a boat, #2: continously maintained equipment, #3: personnel (in a healthy case ~2 divers/employee). If I add up everything, I just wonder if there is anything left?

Anyway, ok train "the herd" for 50$ a piece. What's next? Is a "herd trained" fellow going to shell out 1k$ on an air ticket to fly to Coz or Bonaire? Doubt it... Or more importantly: if someone is crawling in the sand, what is he doing at a wall, where the bottom is at 300ft?? (Well, IF he can equalize, he can crawl at 300ft until the air lasts...)

 

[ams511]

If a shop wanted to use Groupon my recommendation is to offer only an intro to scuba/refresher course, for people who are unsure if diving is for them or want to get back into diving.

You do the classroom work and some pool work and if the student decides to get certified then they pay extra for the additional pool work, gear rental, the certification fee and the certification dives. I would explain it to clients up front. The advantage of this is you don't need to split the entire fee with Groupon and then they cannot resist add-ons because they need it to get certified. Also you probably cut down on the cheapskate factor.

 

[Heatheroe]

Yep, Groupons for OW certification are not good. I just wish more people could find out and read about this stuff before purchasing one. Unfortunately, Groupon does not offer any kind of customer feedback. We paid full price but everyone else in the class bought the Groupon. There were scheduling issues and the shop cut corners for sure and aggressively suggested everyone buy from him. VERY bad experience.

 

[Chilidog11]

I used a Groupon that covered my entire OW course. My pool dives consisted of three divers plus the instructor. He was very professional and patient. I do my OW this weekend and they have a maximum of 6 divers. I was never once asked to purchase from their store although i did anyway. If it weren't for the discount i never would have tried diving.

 

[Harmonyhallresorts]

This is becoming a regular thing. People are more concerned about the money than the sea. The reefs around the northern islands in the Caribbean, the barrier reefs around Mexico and Belize as well as the great barrier reef in Australia all have lost as much as 50% of their health all due to poor education and over population. I can't tell you how many people I have told, corrected and taught to respect the reefs by NOT touching anything, not standing on rocks and reefs. We won't even let our people wear gloves because that only encourages more bad behavior. Feeding of fish and sharks especially has led to bad behavior on both the part of the sharks and the humans. Lack of education by the dive schools, cruise lines, & big resorts are all contributing to the decline of our oceans. It seems it's more about the money than anything. If you want to make a good dive trip more affordable, rather than cutting corners on important things like good classes and safety procedures, try getting off the beaten path. Find the spots that don't see the traffic. Rates will be better, classes will be more personalized and the care taken to provide both you and the environment a better experience will be standard procedure. Many dive destinations around the world offer deals, contact them directly, ask questions and educate yourself. We live in an era of smart phones but stupid people, if we don't start teaching education and stop selling off our oceans to the highest bidders, we will all loose in the end. If you want to get away from those kind of over-crowded "goat trips" and you want to swim on some of the healthiest reefs in some of the clearest waters in the world all for incredible rates, contact us and let us show you the right way to plan and execute the exact dive trip you've always dreamed about. Visit our website at Welcome to Harmony Hall Resorts, St. Vincent | Your Caribbean Dream Vacation made affordable. for lots more info.

 

[ianr33]

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