Worst trend in Scuba Diving instruction many of us have ever seen...Avoid Groupon!

[jm]

I don't blame Groupon, nor people looking for the lowest price. Someone trying to find the best price does not mean they have bad intentions, will be poor students, or poor divers. They are just looking for the lowest prices. I always look for the lowest prices - I would be dumb to not do so.

Also, just because Groupon advertises for a scuba school does not mean the scuba school has to "teach" these students all in the same day. They can still have relatively smaller classes.

The blame goes to the scuba school who are being irresponsible and don't understand how Groupon is supposed to work and help a business. Which is, at the very basic level:
1) Groupon makes you set a very low price (to get people)
2) Groupon takes 50% of the cost
3) Company provides the service (which may be at a loss, or a break-even point)

So why would a company be willing to take a loss, or break-even point? It's the same process as a "loss leader" product. Ever been to Staples where they sell a 100-disc spool of CDs at $5 and you think to yourself "but they are losing money"...well now that you are in Staples, they hope they can sell you on their other products where they will NOT lose money.

So, step 4 - the profit - are the students who purchase equipment, come back for additional training, and refer their friends.

The blame resides with the school, not Groupon or the students. In all honesty, the students have no idea and are not being taught properly

I am no marketing genius but it appears that the dive shops taking students to this area should rethink the way they use Groupon.

Would it not make more economic sense to use it to get people to Discover Scuba, Try Scuba or whatever moniker your agency attaches to the process of trying out breathing underwater? If you are doing an entire course through Groupon half of your revenue is lost, thus you pretty much are wasting your time. If you let them Try Diving in a pool for ten bucks (just a number I am tossing out), you give Groupon $5 and you then are only making $5 per person. You now have the chance to SELL them a full price course. Your success may be less but you at least are making a PROFIT (hopefully) on the ones that have agreed to sign up. You now also have the time ( and no pressure from Groupon) to sort out potential divers that need medical clearance to dive or to sell an economical snorkelling session to those that cannot dive. Yes, HONEST sales can be a bit of work but can lead to revenue.

Also, I bet the people diving at Blue Heron are probably not living the "dive dream" , ie fantastic beautiful coral and marine life to see. The few feet of visibility due to poor buoyancy skills will really encourage them to continue! But since you made no revenue teaching them, how can you possibly take the time and effort to actually TRAIN them properly or afford to take them somewhere else less sensitive? Do you think they will CONTINUE or just strike diving off their to do list and move on to something more rewarding?

It seems the fault and resulting problems all stem from a poor use of Social Media, rather than the media itself.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I don't "have a dog in this fight" other than concern for all marine life. I have been lucky enough to dive BHB and really enjoyed it. One question rings in my mind tho.. "Who will police the police" The name and shame concept on the surface sounds great BUT how do you prove what dive shop/instructor is responsible for what group? How do you make sure that someone with a gripe against a specific shop/instructor doesn't use this as a way to lash out at them?.

The reality is that all popular sites around the world are subject to the same issues. Yes I have had to brace hands and knees over a colony of delicate creatures to protect them as a flailing member of a "siltfish school" came crashing down on me (instead of the creatures). On one occassion I even grabbed the wrist of a dive instructor who was poking a knife at another tiny delicate creature to show it to his "siltfish". I understand the joy of the instructor who wants to share the amazing creatures with his class.

I am not sure if we should be focusing on blaming the education of the "siltfish". IMHO If the instructors respected the environment, they would get that message across to their classes and not allow them to be damaging to the environment. There is a difference between developing bouyancy skills creating some silting and crawling along the bottom or pummeling the bottom with fins! I know some instructors who take their classes over areas where the can do little or no harm but they also need to get people where they can see some kewl stuff too!

Lets not lose site of the fact that we all started somewhere. More divers support the businesses we rely on. More divers support the research and development that we all benefit from. More divers take up the cause of protecting the environment that so many take for granted. IMHO we need to encourage more divers but we all need to work at education at every level from the top down and continually examine our own skills and motives.

 

[weitodive]

I was taking padi OW. Basically we met for 2 hours reviewed chapt 1-3 then did a full day of pool. Now I need to do 2 boat dives before i'm done. The deal was the beach dives where free, but with such a backlog most people are now signing up to do the boat dives at $99 extra. The training cost $200 WITH gear rental so even with the 2 boat dives i'm pretty much paying about the same as a regular training center, but I get my boat dives free.

Here is where I have a problem with shops and PADI. As capt has stated, he is getting the PADI scuba diver course. If the shop (I don't know the exact groupon so this is just me ranting) advertises it accurately and lets the divers know that they are technically not allowed to dive on their own after, then the shop has covered themselves legally. If not, The person buying the groupon gets screwed because they think they are getting a full open water certification. I think it's ridiculous that we (PADI) even have the scuba diver certification. They make things confusing for people. All to sell more PADI materials...

 

[Rich Keller]

I just checked out Groupon online and they just sell coupons. If you have a problem with too many students it is the shops selling through Groupon that are causing the problem not Groupon itself. You need to address this issue with the individual shops.

 

[ghazifarooq]

Reviving the thread to give a students perspective.
i have used two groupons for scuba diving - both for open water. i was unable to complete the first course (padi) due to scheduling issues so a year later got another groupon (sdi).
the first experience was not bad with good customer service and a patient staff. but some problems listed below still apply such as large groups, distance to the shop, buying form the shop etc.

however, the second one was a nightmare in terms of customer service. the shop makes a HUGE difference but overall my groupon scuba experience is quite sour.


I highly recommend that perspective students do not get groupon type deals to get certified - or be part of classes that have a lot of groupon availing students.

• the dive shops realize very late that groupons are not money makers (mostly a loss) and really just want to get over with it. i did not beg the shop for a discount - i availed a deal they were offering. i expected the same kind of courtesy, detail to attention and customer service as would be given to someone paying $300+ for the certification. but i was wrong. the instructors are always out of patience and there is zero customer service - simply because they are not making money from you.
• sometimes there is a fine print that u MUST purchase gear from the shop. other times the fine print is missing and they press this on you when you go to pick up your materials. i personally don't encourage this. i think craigslist has thousands of listing with barely used gear from people who experimented with scuba. you should get this almost new stuff for your certification to see if you really like scuba (or the gear) and then invest properly once u r ready. $300 worth of gear you may not use very regularly is not very smart and i definitely dont want to be forced to buy. i was able to pick up $130 fins for $25 (used once). the point is not to be cheap - but not to be forced to buy from one particular shop. according to one shop where i took the course, i was told i was are being extremely unfair to the shop if I have a groupon and dont buy gear from them???? wtf?? am i responsible for the shop finances.... the training facility may not offer the best selection or prices or discounts on the gear. we should not be made to feel that we have a moral duty to make sure the shop makes money.
• do not consider the groupon offer if the shop is far from your place.. you will spend more on gas. i made the mistake of getting a groupon for a place 35 miles from my home. i had to go to the shop for the following:
  • to register and sign forms, pick up books
  • for 2 separate class sessions
  • for 2 separate pool sessions
  • to pick up a wet suit tank (vendors refused to do it same day of class or bring them to the lake)
  • to drop off wet suit and tank (vendor refused to take it back after lake)
  • to pick up certification card (it was not ready even though he said it will be when i drop off the tank)
• if the dive shop has their own pool, it will probably end up being too crowded. students learning buoyancy will be crashing into each other, slowing down the learning process and irritating the already short-on-patience instructor.they need to squeeze grouponers into large groups
• do the math. if the groupon is 150, groupon take 75. the shop gets 75. for this amount, the instructor needs to teach 6 hours of class, 6 hours of pool, 6 hours of lake. at a minimum 18 hours. some fee must apply for course materials and some fee goes to the scuba company (padi,ssi,sdi). so he probably makes less than $4 an hour - if anything. no wonder he does not give a s*** about giving you any of his time.

my main gripe - i stress again - is the attitude of dive shops towards the discount availing students. they usually end up with too many to handle and just want to churn out student after student. often having no patience for students to make simple expected mistakes. diving is technical and serious, don't expect us to get buoyancy just right after a single dive. i think that paying full price for such an extensive training may get you better customer service - though i could be wrong about that too i just being given the feeling that the instructor is running too late and cant answer all your questions or work with you because he other things to do - actually leads to an unsafe diver.

research the shop and visit it before signing up. see the attitude of the owners/instructors.

end of rant

 

[tomfcrist]

The shop I teach through uses groupon to get folks in the door. I make the same money with full rate or groupon students, and class sizes are not affected. Groupon can be used properly, but I can see how some would pay their instructors less for groupon students. Not saying it is right, but it does happen.

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

The problem is not Groupon. I took this picture of just a "normal" class on the BHB last year:

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Looks shallow enough that you could just save your money and go snorkelling.

 

[The Chairman]

research the shop and visit it before signing up. see the attitude of the owners/instructors.

This is true of non-groupon classes as well. For many shops it's a numbers game. If they aren't getting the numbers using their current methods, then they have to try non-traditional means to get butts in the door. Chances are, if a shop feels compelled to use Groupon, then they are not getting enough customers as it is. In that case, the impatience and the bad customer service might already be a part of their culture. I've said this joke before in other threads, but the biggest difference between a large pizza and a scuba instructor is that the former can feed a family of four.

If you really want to learn scuba, pay for a private or semi-private class. I haven't met one person who regretted spending the extra dough and it's more than likely that they will never feel a need to sell their gear on Craigslist.

 

[iamrushman]

this thread is an interesting read....

 

[The Dive Bum]

This is not a groupon problem or a store problem. It is up to us as instructors to teach EVERY student reguardless of what they paid for the class the correct way to dive. This includes every section of the book. I have not had to deal with groupon because I only do private instruction but if I were to sub for a shop the students would not get less training. Again it is up to me to teach to standards once I accept a class.