3-Day Open Water Certification?

[boulderjohn]

According to the history of NAUI written by All Tillman, NAUI instructor #1, back in the 1960s the newly created dive agencies had to figure out ways to attract new students to the sport and provide the training. The YMCA decided to stick with a process that had begun in the 1950's--working with clubs. NAUI was then led by a university professor, Glen Egstrom, and they decided the best way to meet new students and teach scuba was through university courses. Other agencies, including NASDS (now SSI) and PADI decided the best way to meet new students was through dive equipment retailers.

This led to a major difference in instructional philosophy. With university students as their primary source of students, NAUI could design long and detailed classes leading to certification. They didn't have to worry about the cost of the classes. Students typically paid a semester tuition and then selected the classes they would take that semester. One of them might be scuba. They did not have to pay extra money on top of their tuition, so to them it was essentially free. The instructor was paid like any other faculty member, so they didn't have to worry about attracting students or setting competitive course costs, either. Time was not a factor. With a whole semester to work with, you could teach whatever you wanted and take as long as you wanted.

Looking back at in when he wrote the history in the mid 1990's, Tillman said that the NAUI decision to focus on university training was a serious mistake. It greatly limited their access to new students and limited the kind of students they got as well. The university approach simply would not work outside of the university, so adjustments had to be made. Sure, a new diver who came out of a university course was more competent than someone taught in a shorter course at the neighborhood scuba shop, but was it really necessary to be that more competent in order to do the simple diving that even today comprises probably 80-90% of the dives completed each year?

As I said in another post somewhere, I could make a new agency that demands that all students take three years to get certified and have an M.S. level of understanding of dive physics and physiology. If I could ever get someone to take that class, that person would be better than any of the other new OW divers produced by any of the other agencies. But does the fact that my student was so much better prepared than anyone else's mean that all the other agencies' graduates are incompetent? Does it mean they cannot safely do basic OW dives any more?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

No it does not mean all of them can't. But it does mean that some are out there who should not be. The ones who can't set up their own gear, determine how much weight they actually need on their own, can't plan a dive without a DM or instructors assistance. Those actually pose a risk to other divers and when one of them gets hurt or worse it has an effect on the entire community. From PR standpoint, business standpoint, and certainly from an insurance liability standpoint for the pro's who have to suffer for the actions of the puppy mill get em get em out schools of OW training.

 

[boulderjohn]

A big factor in how long it takes a student to become proficient is how they are instructed during their OW course.

Last fall I was diving in Akumal with two friends. We were doing short one-tank boat trips from the dive shop. One morning we were led by a DM we had not seen before. When we reached shore, he told the three of us that he noticed we were the only ones signed up for the first afternoon dive, and he asked if he could take us to a site more befitting our experience and ability. We of course agreed. When we were suiting up for that dive, though, we saw that another couple had signed up at the last minute. We did go to the more advanced site, one with swim throughs and beautiful narrow canyons, but we had an immediate problem. The husband had poor buoyancy skills, and the wife was a buoyancy disaster. The DM gave her a buoyancy lesson in the sand while we watched. He tried a canyon first, but when they struggled with it, he gave up. We swam past all the neat places he had intended to take us.

Back on shore, the DM apologized. That couple that signed up at the last minute only had about 25 logged dives--they just didn't have the vast experience the three of us had, so they were not able to do the kind of dive he had envisioned. I pointed to my two friends and said, "They were just certified yesterday. Today was their first day as certified divers."

Their course had been nothing special. They had had two normal pool sessions with me before heading to Akumal. I had done their four OW dives on the two previous days. We had not done much of anything beyond the standards. The difference is that we had focused on buoyancy and trim from the start. They had done their first confined water dives properly weighted, with the weight distributed for proper trim. They had done those first confined water dives in neutral, horizontal position. All skills throughout the confined water sessions were done that way, and on the second day all skills were done in mid water. By the time we had our first OW dive, they were used to being neutrally buoyant and in horizontal trim. It took no more time than any other class would have taken.

PADI's new standards call for (but, sadly, do not require) students to be taught that way. We will see if it makes a difference.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

No it does not mean all of them can't. But it does mean that some are out there who should not be. The ones who can't set up their own gear, determine how much weight they actually need on their own, can't plan a dive without a DM or instructors assistance. Those actually pose a risk to other divers and when one of them gets hurt or worse it has an effect on the entire community. From PR standpoint, business standpoint, and certainly from an insurance liability standpoint for the pro's who have to suffer for the actions of the puppy mill get em get em out schools of OW training.

So would this be because of the standards set by the agencies, the length of the classes, or the instructor. I'm not familiar with this, but does any agency have a quota on how many divers should be certified in a year? I've seen the divers you speak of from all the agencies.

 

[AdivingBel]

It is very much about the individual, the instuctor, and the individual's expectations. If you want to do a shallow reef dive and see the pretty fish, there are some basic skills you need to learn to do it in "relative" safety. As life threatening as it can be, it's not rocket science. If you want to do more challenging dives, then get more dive experience and more dive instruction in what ever manner you see fit. If we don't begin in this hobby/sport from the vantage point of rational, well reasoned individuals who by and large don't want to die, then we've turned it over to the nanny-state that we all seem to abhore. Sure, if you achieve your card, you can rent tanks and attempt to raise the titanic, but if you do you're nuts and a 6-8 week long OW class isn't going to make a difference. If you're in a place in your life where you can take a 6 - 8 week class from any of these highly skilled instructors, by all means do so. You'll be the better diver for it. But, if you can't, then find an instructor you can work with, take the three day class and if you and your instructor agree, GO DIVE. It's a wonderful thing. Thousands (ten's of thousands, hundred's of thousands) have done it and lived to tell about it. And oh BTW, clip off your gauges, secure your octo, and keep your fins off the reef. (now you only need two more days)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It's a combination of all of the above and I too have seen this from a number of different agency programs. Some more than others. There are programs that do not allow abbreviated training. They require the diver to be directed elsewhere if that is what they want or to certify them under a different agency if the instructor can do so. But they do not want to be associated with these types of courses and instruction that results in these less than qualified divers.

 

[boulderjohn]

No it does not mean all of them can't. But it does mean that some are out there who should not be. The ones who can't set up their own gear, determine how much weight they actually need on their own, can't plan a dive without a DM or instructors assistance. Those actually pose a risk to other divers and when one of them gets hurt or worse it has an effect on the entire community. From PR standpoint, business standpoint, and certainly from an insurance liability standpoint for the pro's who have to suffer for the actions of the puppy mill get em get em out schools of OW training.

My students can set up their own gear and can plan a dive without assistance. It doesn't take anything like 8 weeks to teach that. Give me a student for 8 weeks and that student will be pretty darned good, depending upon how long I have that student per week. For the purpose of making someone a safe and comfortable open water diver, I don't need anywhere near that much time.

 

[EFX]

.... Sure, if you achieve your card, you can rent tanks and attempt to raise the titanic, but if you do you're nuts and a 6-8 week long OW class isn't going to make a difference.....

I think the 6-8 week class would make a difference. I think Jim Lapenta has mentioned elsewhere that his students work on and practice buoyancy and propulsion skills under his supervision. In my PADI buoyancy class I had to demonstrate the skills during 2 dives (the first dive was intro as part of AOW). While I did OK I had to practice on my own without an instructor helping me. I wish PADI would include higher skill proficiency in buoyancy and propulsion as part of the Master diver cert that goes beyond the skills learned in the specialty. They could also create a specialty for diver skills proficiency that would fit in with the current PADI business model.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think the 6-8 week class would make a difference. I think Jim Lapenta has mentioned elsewhere that his students work on and practice buoyancy and propulsion skills under his supervision. In my PADI buoyancy class I had to demonstrate the skills during 2 dives (the first dive was intro as part of AOW). While I did OK I had to practice on my own without an instructor helping me. I wish PADI would include higher skill proficiency in buoyancy and propulsion as part of the Master diver cert that goes beyond the skills learned in the specialty. They could also create a specialty for diver skills proficiency that would fit in with the current PADI business model.

As I mentioned above, PADI has recently changed its instructional model to focus much more on buoyancy and trim in its OW class. They did not make it mandatory, but their new instructional materials demonstrate this focus. I have been teaching this way for a number of years, and the difference it makes in a student's ability to control buoyancy and trim immediately after completing the class is dramatic. As I mentioned in a post above, some of my students were mistaken for highly experienced divers on their first day after certification.

If you plant students on their knees for the confined water portion of the class with too much lead on their hips and lots of air in their BCDs, and if you only give them a few token opportunities to try to swim in neutral buoyancy, they will certainly suck at it big time when they try to dive. If you instead put them in horizontal trim and have them do their skills while buoyant from the very start, they will come out of the confined water dives looking like real divers, even though you don't spend any more time at it than the people who instruct the students on their knees.

The new PADI instructional materials contain, for example, a video in which an instructor puts weights in a student's trim pockets so that the student can hover horizontally. When I went to our regional meeting in January, the regional director made a big deal about how much better students learn when taught this way. He said that all skills in the last few confined water sessions should be done in mid water.

This is a major change. From the time scuba training began in the 1950s, training was done on the knees. The invention of the BCD made doing it otherwise possible, but by then the tradition had been firmly planted. It is only recently that people have discovered the difference. PADI just made these changes, and it will take a while for the changes to come fully. I believe they are the only major agency that has done this so far. It will be a while before we really start to see changes in new divers in general.

 

[mathauck0814]

Every single weekend we see divers who dive a lot (hundreds of dives - some of them quite active to the tune of a hundred a year) diving badly. It's truly incredible the stupid ideas, misunderstanding of basic concepts, illogical gear configurations and just plain poor behavior in the water they have. The longer courses give the instructor more time to try to set the student off on a path where they don't turn into one of these divers for whom "experience" gives them a license to do things poorly or incorrectly.

Perhaps it's a local/regional thing, but the very experienced bad diver is the thing that I think most instructors are trying to avoid (they're the ones with the hubris and lack of knowledge that leads to bad days and sad stories).

I don't teach as often as a lot of the other people who've chimed in, but I've never seen someone "get it" as they'd have to in order to satisfy me in 3 days. That's why I don't believe it's a good idea. If there are scuba savants, I haven't come across one; most people learn with time and repetition.