AOW? Joke? Meaningless?

[RJP]

Help me understand.

What did you discuss with the instructor/shop before signing up for the class?

If the course didn't meet your expectation - which you never shared with the shop - then there's more than one party responsible.

I would not have taught the two of you the same AOW course.

---------- Post added July 30th, 2015 at 10:39 PM ----------

I learnt a lot from AOW both practically and theoretically. But it is really not suitable for diver who had just completed OW.

Damn... wish I knew that before I took it as logged dives 5-10.

:d

 

[modustollens]

Back when I did my OW, in 89 perhaps, one could not take AOW without having at least 50 logged dives (this was not a PADI shop at that time). When I finally did do my AOW many years later I did a PADI AOW and the guy on the course with me had just finished his OW. So he had no buoyancy nor trim, was really nervous and used all his air in less than 30 minutes on every dive. So we could not get much advanced practice done and the course was a waste of time and money for me for there was nothing done that I had not already done on my own many times.

But the lesson I did learn was what has be said in this and other threads many times: don't just sign up for a course from some shop. You must research and interview the actual instructor in order to ensure value. The instructor needs to persuade you why you should train with him.

MT

 

[gr8jab]

I'm hearing a lot of good things in this thread.. thanks everyone for responding.

I'll add a few things, then try to answer some of the direct questions or comments by specific people.

Few Things:

Considering much of the feedback here, I have a better understanding of what the AOW could have been, but was not.
Am I partly at fault for that? Probably. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wish I had done it differently. But not knowing that
before hand, I did poorly.

Peter Guy:

I would have welcome these additional topics and learnings. We covered the 'book questions', but we did not try most of the things you suggested.

tursiops:

I am familiar with Dunning Kruger. One of my college math professors used to talk about it when making fun of the geologists (not my jest, his).
In truth, he tended to exaggerate and evangelize about it much more than the wiki does.

I don't think I fall into this category (of course, if I did, I wouldn't know it anyway . I know there are a LOT of things to learn, and I
will never stop learning. There is a lot of diving for which I don't feel ready, and many things I wish I could do better. For example, my first
OW attempt at deploying the DSMB was horrible. If I don't have a guide, I stay very close to the entry point. Only after taking several dives at the
same location will I explore farther, returning to the entry point frequently.

Maybe I sounded arrogant out of frustration. I expected to learn new things and get new skills. I was disappointed that I did not. It was very rudimentary.

I think I would have enjoyed you as instructor very much. I'm guessing your teaching style might work well for me. I'll bet you like to share
the details of 'what', 'why', and 'when' that are so often omitted by many.

freewilly:

Yes, boat. Yes, drift. Not my choice. We were limited by the boat's schedule and by desires of the other diver.
I asked for Deep, Navigation, Wreck, Night, and Buoyancy. There was only one deep dive (on a wreck) on the schedule. All the other spots
were shallow, so we could not do both deep and wreck. The other diver wanted to Drift, so we did that instead of Buoyancy.
I'm not sure how we got Boat, but it seemed somewhat convenient for the shop/instructor.

Yes, I did not feel challenged. However, the other student seemed to be maxed out. I'm sure I would have pushed for more if that had not been the case.

RJP:

We did not discuss very much. After reading the PADI book, I was expecting more of the same. My bad.

 

[FinnMom]

However, now, in the eyes of the LDS, we are equal.

A LDS is involved enough in diving to know that a 10 dive diver and a 70 diver diver are not equal: experience makes a great difference. Also inportant is how recently you have had this experience. I'd feel more at ease many situations with some of our enthusiasticly active new divers than I would some of our significantly more advanced divers that haven't seen much water in years. IMHO nothing can easily make up for not spending much time in the water; it would be like trying to remain competent in a foreign language without ever using it. [Disclaimer: "Not easily" refers of course to normal divers, not those individuals who could forget 95% still be more competent than us normal divers in our best daydreams].

There are so many businesses offering dives, filling cylinders, teaching advanced classes, or just individuals like me wondering whether this diver I've never met before is someone I'm willing to join on an 80' dive. Having an AOWD card might not tell me much, but it tells me that some theory test was passed and some dives have been experienced. Chances are most AOW divers can dive to 80' at least as well as a lot of new drivers can actually drive. Gotta have some sort of documentation and gotta start somewhere. That's why we have AOWD.

 

[Rhone Man]

Just to play Devil's advocate a little (but only a little), I think whether AOW is taught well or taught badly, it will in some measure make you a better diver. But I would rename the course "Introduction to Task Loading". Whether it amounts to good value or not depends upon how well it is taught and how much it costs. But when a less experienced diver starts to take on additional task loading whilst diving (as you do in AOW) then there is inevitably a learning curve. For various reasons it may be better to go through part of that curve under professional supervision with an instructor who is on hand to instruct, correct and advise.

I just cut a cheque for US$365 for my son's AOW. Do I feel I got great value? Probably not, on the whole. But he got five dives for that price, and he probably learned something along the way and is a bit more experienced than he was before. So I call it close to a wash.

 

[archer1960]

I took AOW immediately after OW, during a diving trip to Cozumel, and I thought it was good in that it *introduced* me to different kinds of diving. However, I think it would have been even more useful if I had 5-10 additional dives under my belt to get just a bit more comfortable before taking on additional tasks. I think waiting for 20 or more additional dives may have been too much time in that I would have likely re-enforced some bad habits. However, my situation probably wasn't typical in that I got 12 dives in 5 days from the trip at the same time, so was rapidly gaining experience from that at the same time. The fact that I had an instructor watching me during the first few was good for catching and correcting bad habits before they became ingrained.

 

[RJP]

I just cut a cheque for US$365 for my son's AOW. Do I feel I got great value? Probably not, on the whole. But he got five dives for that price, and he probably learned something along the way and is a bit more experienced than he was before. So I call it close to a wash.

I did AOW in Maui right after I got certified. I was travelling with my non-diving wife and non-diving kids and didn't want an instabuddy. I think I paid $325 for five AOW dives which included tank rentals and charter fees. It would have cost me more than that to do five dives with a guide. So financially AOW was a better option. Just so happens that I swerved into a great instructor who actually made the course worthwhile as well.

 

[LoneStarCJ]

Continuing your training is not a joke. AOW is the next step after OW. I suggest you keep going to rescue diver and beyond. You can dive and gain experience but you need the training to document your skill level.

 

[stuartv]

Continuing your training is not a joke.

I agree.

AOW is the next step after OW.

AOW is PADI's next step. SDI offers an equivalent - Advanced Adventure Diver. But, unlike PADI, SDI doesn't try to force you to take that by making it a prereq for other things. There are some things where AAD would satisfy an SDI prereq, but there are other ways to satisfy it, so AAD is not actually required.

I did SDI OW and skipped bothering with doing 5 "adventure" dives and went straight on to taking the full specialty courses I wanted - e.g. Deep, Wreck, Buoyancy Control, etc.. I am now ready and will be doing Rescue ASAP.

I was not concerned with having a card that says "Advanced" on it. Nor did I want a 1 dive "taste" of Deep or Wreck or etc.. I wanted the full education on those things, so I feel like it was a good decision for me, financially, at least, to skip the AOW (or AAD) class.

Continuing training is good. Just don't think you HAVE to spend the money and time for the AOW course.

 

[Manneca]

IMHO AOW is just a way to make more money. Like an earlier poster I got my basic scuba diver in 1981. In 2006 (I think) I got my AOW. Why? because I didn't like the guide I had in Palau and they told me if I did AOW, I could choose the guide. Basically I did the same dives I would have done except navigation. And navigation was a piece of cake. And I was never a boy scout. Or girl scout.

Experience is the best teacher. You get to know what you need to learn and find someone who can help you learn it.

I've noticed that there is a huge difference in US trained divers and non-US trained divers. Non US trained divers seem much more skillful than US ones. They generally have decent buoyancy control, are comfortable in the water.