Are dive computers making bad divers?

[The Chairman]

Well, isn't hyperbole, straw men and excluded middle de rigeur in this

it's not my modus operandi. I'm probably middle of the road when it comes to my use & trust of PDCs. Trim & buoyancy??? Well, it's no secret that I'm a snob. YMMV.

 

[Storker]

Trim & buoyancy??? Well, it's no secret that I'm a snob. YMMV.

I guess we agree pretty much on that topic.

One of my favorite stories is about my very - very! - first post-cert dive. Me and my son/regular buddy had just finished our OW certs, gotten ur gear and went out to my current club's training site to check it out. We were n00bs, to the extreme. Another guy, then - and still - a member of our club, showed up. While we were busy tilling up the sand on the bottom, generally making a mess out of the site, I glanced upwards. I saw this guy hovering effortlessly above us, knees bent, hands clasped in front of him, in what I've later learned to recognize as GUE style. There and then, I decided that I was - come heaven or hell - going to reach that level of control. No matter how, no matter when. I'm still working on it, but I like to believe I've become fairly good at it.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't know what goes on in class when they teach PDC's simply because not many people were using them when I got certified, it was all tables. When I finally did get a computer I just slapped it on my wrist and went diving, it was pretty self explanatory to me and I knew what the computer was doing. I remember I couldn't believe how much more bottom time I was allowed with the computer. Diving with someone using tables was a drag because they'd be heading up and my computer would say I had all kinds of time left.

So what does go on in a modern computer class?
Do instructors just tell students to follow what it says and that's it, or do they get into any nitty gritty about what they do and how they do it?
Is there any comparison to the tables as in showing them what a table was and the time and depths, the fact about square profiles etc, so at least they have an idea of where the computer grew out of, but obviously stopping short of actually teaching them how to use the table since that would be pointless.
Maybe Net Doc or someone can give a brief rundown of the key points of the PDC course, I'm curious to know.

 

[tridacna]

Must be one mencsh of a diver!"

And the Tony for the worst use of a Yiddish colloquialism in a diving context goes to NetDoc for "Mensch". Oy. You gotta get to Boca more often Pete.

 

[fjpatrum]

Sure. 10 people on SB make up a quorum. In their own minds perhaps. I work in a dive shop and see what the other 99.999% of divers do. Hint: It aint tables and they're not getting bent either. Like the good doctor said above, if you believe everything that you read here, most divers would be diving BP/Ws, 7 foot primary hoses, octos on 70 degree swivels, steel tanks, Shearwater Petrels on all available limbs AND carefully planning their 30 feet dives with tables. Good luck finding those when you're not diving caves. Worthless conversation indeed.

I'm not sure where you got that from my post. I said people DO use them. I also said it probably isn't the norm. If you can't read for comprehension it's no wonder you think the discussion has no value.

 

[boulderjohn]

I While we were busy tilling up the sand on the bottom, generally making a mess out of the site, I glanced upwards. I saw this guy hovering effortlessly above us, knees bent, hands clasped in front of him, in what I've later learned to recognize as GUE style.

What do you call it when it is taught by any of the other technical training agencies--which is 100% of them?

So what does go on in a modern computer class?

In the PADI class, students have a significant amount of information on computer use built into the curriculum. They are taught the basic functions found in all computers. They are taught to learn and use the dive planning function. They are taught to recognize when a computer is guiding them through unplanned decompression. They are taught how to deal with computer failure. They have access to an online simulator that allows them to work through a variety of dive profiles to see how changes in depth, etc. affect NDLs. They can go through multiple dives to see how repetitive diving changes profiles.

As for decompression theory, it is the same whether you are dealing with it via tables or computers, so it is not different.

 

[tridacna]

Start a new thread. Someone. Anyone. Please.

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Off topic discussion split to new thread C Cards Requirement or Recommendation? Please stay on topic Are Dive computers making bad divers? Bowlofpetunias Sr Mod

---

 

[Rhone Man]

Sure. 10 people on SB make up a quorum. In their own minds perhaps. I work in a dive shop and see what the other 99.999% of divers do. Hint: It aint tables and they're not getting bent either. Like the good doctor said above, if you believe everything that you read here, most divers would be diving BP/Ws, 7 foot primary hoses, octos on 70 degree swivels, steel tanks, Shearwater Petrels on all available limbs AND carefully planning their 30 feet dives with tables. Good luck finding those when you're not diving caves. Worthless conversation indeed.

I'm not sure where you got that from my post. I said people DO use them. I also said it probably isn't the norm. If you can't read for comprehension it's no wonder you think the discussion has no value.

To be fair, it might not have been a direct response to your post, but I thought tridacna's post was fairly prescient. The crowd who post on SB are a long way from being a representative sample of the average Joe and Jill Diver, but a lot of people lose sight of that in discussions.

 

[bfw]

Computers are fine when the diver understands what it is telling them.

THIS^^^^^
My simple rule - do not use that which to you is magic. No cargo cult diving.
That said, I've seen more than my share of divers for whom the tables are pure magic. They know how to use the tables to plan dives and determine their current group letter, but they don't have a clue what any of it means. They simply blindly do what the table tells them.

When I took the Deep Diving specialty, we derived from the basic physical laws the differential equations that produce the values in the tables and the algorithms in the computers.

 

[Neilwood]

THIS^^^^^
My simple rule - do not use that which to you is magic. No cargo cult diving.
That said, I've seen more than my share of divers for whom the tables are pure magic. They know how to use the tables to plan dives and determine their current group letter, but they don't have a clue what any of it means. They simply blindly do what the table tells them.

When I took the Deep Diving specialty, we derived from the basic physical laws the differential equations that produce the values in the tables and the algorithms in the computers.

I would say that for the average OW diver knowing the maths behind how the tables were achieved would be way too much. I doubt most vacation/occasional divers want to get in to differential equations.

All most divers need to know is the following:

• that the tables were produced using years of empirical data gained from test situations,
• that the dive tables give a good approximation of the nitrogen loading in ideal conditions
• that they are a good guideline for most diving,
• that they should be used conservatively,
• that even used conservatively they might not prevent DCS so be able to recognise it,
• how various factors can affect the grouping (such as cold/ exertion/ profile etc)
• if you are going to err, do so on the side of safety ie longer stops/slower ascent etc

Now if you want to go deep or tech, knowing the additional information would probably be useful