Cave Ccr Student Dies At Blue Grotto Today

[boulderjohn]

Can you narrow down the "They" just a tad?

I have experience in both camps--trying to get information and trying to avoid giving it.

As someone who helps write accounts of cave incidents for the National Speleological Society, I have encountered extreme reluctance from individuals involved in incidents to reveal what they know. I have been convinced at times that individuals were flat out lying. I have also encountered incidents in which people sincerely regret having told what they know earlier, after their well intentioned words came back to bite them. As someone who has been involved in an incident, I can understand the reluctance to tell what you know for a wide variety of very good reasons.

The IUCRR is an organization that tries to effect cave rescues (more often effects body recoveries) and writes reports on the cause of the incidents in which they participate. They used to publish their reports on their website. They don't do that anymore, and they stopped doing it on advice of counsel. There are too many ways in which something they write in a report can end up becoming part of a lawsuit, even a lawsuit against them. Today their reports go only to the police, and if you want to read them, you will need to use the Freedom of Information act.

BTW, once a report is written by the police, there is nothing to stop someone from getting it through the Freedom of Information act and then publishing it themselves.

EDIT on 4/16: I have been contacted by a member of the IUCRR indicating that my summary of their policy is inaccurate. I am going to investigate further and hope to be able to correct it.

 

[Reku]

It seems like we have had quite a few cave incidents in recent weeks. This is sad news.

 

[KevinNM]

Yes we have. All CCR too. Though the one in Ginnie sounds more medical emergency than CCR related.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

What the hell? How do you lose track of a student?

I've never been in the cavern part of blue grotto, so is there a 'surface' there or was this in the OW area outside the cavern?

I wouldn't throw the instructor under the bus based on the very limited information available.

I've only been there twice - once during CCR training and once on a springs trip getting "open water" time on a rebreather.

The area in the upper cavern is pretty open and you'd have to work hard to lose someone there. However, the area in the lower cavern is smaller and much siltier, and with open water divers with poor trim, poor fin technique, and poor buoyancy control, it's quite possible to have the viz go south in a hurry at the hundred foot level.

It's also not clear, based on what's in this thread, whether he was floating on the surface, or just floating in the upper cavern - there's no surface there, but the ceiling is fairly flat in that area.

 

[CuzzA]

I'll add that having dived there a few times it can get pretty busy with quite a few divers all over, especially if there's a couple classes going on. So adding to the silt issue from so many divers you have a lot of dive traffic, so to speak. Nevertheless, it's a beautiful cavern and great facility, even if it's silty the viz is pretty damn good.

I wouldn't throw the instructor under the bus based on the very limited information available.

I've only been there twice - once during CCR training and once on a springs trip getting "open water" time on a rebreather.

The area in the upper cavern is pretty open and you'd have to work hard to lose someone there. However, the area in the lower cavern is smaller and much siltier, and with open water divers with poor trim, poor fin technique, and poor buoyancy control, it's quite possible to have the viz go south in a hurry at the hundred foot level.

It's also not clear, based on what's in this thread, whether he was floating on the surface, or just floating in the upper cavern - there's no surface there, but the ceiling is fairly flat in that area.

 

[KevinNM]

Part of what an instructor is supposed to be do is choose appropriate locations and conditions to train the various skills safely. So if what happened is what was reported at the top of the thread I'm not sure what is a reasonable excuse for that.

However, first reports are usually wrong. So we shall see.

 

[whodunit68]

It seems like we have had quite a few cave incidents in recent weeks. This is sad news.

We know virtually nothing about this incident yet it looks very very little like a cave incident. It very much sounds like it was open water. It is terribly unfortunate just the same.

 

[Reku]

We know virtually nothing about this incident yet it looks very very little like a cave incident. It very much sounds like it was open water. It is terribly unfortunate just the same.

The thread title says 'cave ccr' so I'm taking it at face value for now. You are correct we don't know anything yet. It is very terrible regardless of what type of incident it turns out to be.

 

[chillyinCanada]

What is the Facebook site being referred to in this thread?

 

[The Chairman]

The thread title says 'cave ccr' so I'm taking it at face value for now.

I've gotten two reports now. One from a diver at the scene and another from someone who talked to a diver at the scene. Both state that this was during a "Lights Out" drill, which is part of a Cave CCR class and not a CCR class. That doesn't mean the instructor didn't add this drill to a CCR class. I have no first hand knowledge from the instructor or the other surviving student. I don't even know who the deceased is. All I know is that it happened and the scant few facts as I have posted about.

I did the first half of my SF2 training at Blue Grotto. I did line drills which while not specifically a part of a CCR class, really helped me to work on my trim and buoyancy. In fact, we did drills while I was running the line, just to stress me out. It's up to the student to make sure his gear is back to square one after each drill. During a boom drill (gas leak), you turn off both cylinders to simulate looking for a leak. It's easy for the instructor to hit you with yet another drill before you turn those cylinders back on. That alone can be fatal, especially if the next drill is "lights out" and your eyes are closed so you can't see the PPO2 levels diminish to dangerous levels. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it certainly is possible.