Redundancy Required for Decompression Diving?

[Bennno]

Self-teaching is prone to pitfalls though. Lack of assessment and timely correction. It'd be easy to believe your self-tuiton was effective, but how would you actually know?

What about realistic self-assenssment?
I would not recommend to anyone to try something like CCR/cave/trimix without an instructor.
Sidemount diving on the other hand is a good example of something you can absolutely teach yourself, especially when you're already an experienced diver. It's gonna take you longer but you can do it.
I have never taken a sidemount course and I have no idea what I would learn from an instructor at this point. Since it only takes 1-2 day to become a sidemount instructor yourself, you can be sure that many SM instructors don't really know much about it anyways.

 

[Bennno]

How do you know you're if you're actually competant or not?

Self-assessment is a nice tool for enabling divers to become legends in their own minds.

Are you claiming there is no such thing as realistic self-assessment?

 

[Bennno]

And how do you tell the difference between complete bollocks and fact?

How do you know your instructors is competent?

When creating new anything you get feedback from experts, target users, and a bunch of people. So when designing a course the author will not be assessed directly but the course will be through pilots, trials and feedback.

You can learn stuff from people that aren't instructors and there is lots of good sources in books and on the web.
Instructors often aren't experts, not by any stretch of the imagination! I could get an instructor rating for a whole bunch of stuff within a week (if that) that's not making me an expert though.

 

[DevonDiver]

Are you claiming there is no such thing as realistic self-assessment?

How do you realistically and immediately assess every drill and skill you practice?

How do you know a mistake, if you're sufficiently flawed to be making mistakes?

How do you identify an error, or omission, when you're lack of knowledge is leading to that error or omission?

How do you set high standards, when you're yet to attain and understand higher standards?

How do you test to failure or overload, if you're responsible for dictating the parameters of testing?

Yeah... I'm saying that self-assessment is a potential minefield where you're likely to blow smoke up your own ass.

 

[DevonDiver]

Sidemount diving on the other hand is a good example of something you can absolutely teach yourself, [...] I have never taken a sidemount course and I have no idea what I would learn from an instructor at this point.

So, if you don't know... how can you confidently state that you can teach yourself?

Perhaps your standards for sidemount diving are significantly flawed compared to those of an expert instructor?

 

[Bennno]

How do you realistically and immediately assess every drill and skill you practice?

How do you know a mistake, if you're sufficiently flawed to be making mistakes?

How do you identify an error, or omission, when you're lack of knowledge is leading to that error or omission?

How do you set high standards, when you're yet to attain and understand higher standards?

How do you test to failure or overload, if you're responsible for dictating the parameters of testing?

Depends on your background. If you're still a newish diver you probably can't.
When I started SM diving I was already cave and trimix trained for a few years. I knew I need to be streamlined, I can't have anything snag points, I know what kind of skills I need to train etc.
Also, you can get feedback from other divers.

I'm not saying self-training is the better way but it can be done, under certain circumstances.

Yeah... I'm saying that self-assessment is a potential minefield where you're likely to blow smoke up your own ass.

I think that depends on prior experience/training and on the type of person you are. If you're a guy that tends to think what they're doing is great all the time, than it surely is a minefield. Not everybody is like that though, people that tend to be nitpicky and self-critical can do it.

 

[lermontov]

How do you realistically and immediately assess every drill and skill you practice?

How do you know a mistake, if you're sufficiently flawed to be making mistakes?

How do you identify an error, or omission, when you're lack of knowledge is leading to that error or omission?

How do you set high standards, when you're yet to attain and understand higher standards?

How do you test to failure or overload, if you're responsible for dictating the parameters of testing?

Yeah... I'm saying that self-assessment is a potential minefield where you're likely to blow smoke up your own ass.

You have set up straw men as an argument, unless you possess ALL diving knowledge these arguments can be applied to any diver below God status- BTW who assess your standards? is there someone higher ?

 

[Bennno]

So, if you don't know... how can you confidently state that you can teach yourself?

Perhaps your standards for sidemount diving are significantly flawed compared to those of an expert instructor?

I think I can self assess realistically, I dive with other people that would tell me if I suck and I have looked at what other people, including instructors, have been doing.

 

[Bennno]

You have set up straw men as an argument, unless you possess ALL diving knowledge these arguments can be applied to any diver below God status- BTW who assess your standards? is there someone higher ?

Well, he's got a point when he says people blow smoke up their own asses. People do do that, including instructors and IT's though and the agencies don't do a good job weeding the bad once out.

The issue with this argument is that you can turn it against anyone really.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, there's someone higher...There's always someone higher, or possessing more specialist expertise, or is willing to critique you.

It's all relative to what you're learning.

I don't translate expertise in one area to all areas. Yes, general diving competency transfers, but specialist skills and knowledge don't.

I teach advanced diving for a living, but I still endeavor to get peer or mentor review frequently....to gauge my progress and competency.

In areas I don't yet have expertise in (there's lots), I seek out that expertise.

In any given diving arena, there's scope and benefit for seeking out external validation and input.

Divers who eskew doing this tend to plateau, or stagnate, very quickly... or where just never half as good as they believed themselves to be..