Unqualified Divers in Caves--especially ones like Eagles Nest
- Thread starter boulderjohn
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I don't know anyone that does cave training there, only trimix training for full cave divers. For them, it's the proximity and availability of a deep cave that gets deep fast. Lower Orange Grove is the only other readily accessible trimix depth cave that I can think of *in terms of rough amenities at and near the dive site and largely unrestricted access* but I don't think any agency allows training in there *someone correct me if I'm wrong*, because of the restriction at the entrance. EN is a convenient cave to teach trimix in, and if it wasn't shaped like an hour glass with a small solution tube at the entrance, I'm sure there would be less arguments about cavern divers going in there.
For the OW trimix courses, it is a cheap way to get deep. If you do it in OW, you have to pay the boat and are subject to the weather. Expensive, and unreliable. Caves are cheap and reliable. Up here, the mix courses are almost all taught at Lake Jocassee for that reason instead of spending 3+ hours each way on a boat to get deep enough off shore and being at the mercy of the weather
I have been wondering if it's more subtle than that. Maybe the more reports we read in the media about "another fatality at Eagles Nest," the more people start thinking along the lines of: "Diving Eagles Nest confirms in my mind that I am a better, safer diver than those people who died."
Because the new Trimix divers shouldn't be taught in conditions that are like those they will dive in? Just saying, we used to teach that divers are certified to dive in condition similar to those they were trained in. So the instructors looking for ideal non weather great spots to train Trimix are in fact only teaching Trimix divers to teach in those conditions, what a bargain!
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pros and cons here though. We're both NAUI instructors and both know full well where that statement is written. That said, does that mean that I have to retake my cave training if I want to go dive in Missouri, Mexico, or the Bahamas because they are different than Florida? Do I have to retake trimix training in the ocean if I was certified in a cave or OW? I'd argue absolutely not, IF and ONLY IF, you aren't being an idiot. Sure I can go out to Jocassee and finish trimix training to a depth of 350ft in a cold and dark lake. I am also DPV cave certified, but that doesn't mean my first trimix dive is going to be to the back of Weeki Wachi or Eagles Nest.... Nor am I going to go straight out and do the Doria. Progressive penetration has to be factored in somewhere to adjust being certified to dive in conditions similar to where you were trained otherwise we would never explore and diversify our diving.
If this guy had been diving NJ wrecks, on a CCR, at trimix depths for a decade, and had a cavern cert. I would have 0 problems with that dive plan despite what the CDS says about there not being a cavern zone. Diver is used to deep, dark, cold, overhead environments, and has had at least basic training on how to follow a line in a cave, but likely a lot of experience following one inside of a wreck with a lot more complex navigation than diving in an hourglass. I would argue that he is more qualified to do that dive plan than someone who 1 year diving experience but was full cave/CCR/full trimix certified and cranked it all out in a year. On paper the cave diver is more qualified, but we don't dive on paper, and you know full well who I would rather have with me as a buddy on that dive plan despite what the cert cards say.
It means as a newly certified whatever level diver, you need to gradually expand your experience base. When diving in new environments get training/mentoring from somebody experienced in that new to you environment.
But really, as instructors, we SHOULD be moving our students from the "easy" environments to the ones they are likely to be actually diving in. Even at the OW level, we see all ow dives done in a spring..yet the divers will be most likely diving off boats. Do a day at the springs then a day on boat..expand their experience in training. But it doesn't happen because of money, time and convenience over educational quality and outcomes
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I don't have a problem with this. However, it shouldn't be used for any other training except ADVANCED Cave and Trimix and then only with truly accomplished cave divers (Abe Davis Award???)
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OP
Can someone help me with this? Does this mean that the light the diver uses for navigation is primarily from sunlight and not from a dive light?
I was never taught that sunlight being the "primary" light source was a requirement for cavern. I was taught that sunlight had to be visible at all times from anywhere in the cavern. That is to me a big difference. I have been looking through definitions, and I cannot find the "primary light source" in the materials I have. I have been in a lot of caverns over the years, and I can't think of many--if any at all--for which sunlight is the primary light source throughout the accepted cavern zone. I have known cave guides to have everyone cover their lights so they could see the light from the cavern entrance clearly.
Can someone show me where the definitions for cavern say this?
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