What are the responsibilities of a DM/Guide

[KenGordon]

These people are guides. That loose groups of holiday divers put their safety in their hands is a mistake for everyone.

In the recent case it sounds like the guide was put in a difficult position, presumably considering a duty to the group over the one to the diver with an issue. How is one person supposed to cope in those circumstances? If they believe (through experience or what they get told) that the group is so incompetent as to be at risk without a guide then they will want to stick with the group.

Divers ought to be self sufficient in the conditions they dive in. Not just the diver surfacing alone but the group left behind. The guide ought to be able to assume he can ignore most of them and pay attention to the one with an issue.

That they are thought of as a group rather than a collection of buddy pairs is telling.

People ought not to be doing dives with a guide they would not be prepared to do as part of a buddy pair. Perhaps Carverns are an exception.

 

[TMHeimer]

In the UK:
You will not find DMs on a dive boat.

But as a DM, I work for a school (that belongs to a local inland site).
My main priority is to act as a safety diver for the instructor. I am there to rescue him/her if there is an issue. I also keep an eye on students who are not directly involved in skills.
But, I may also act as a buddy if there is an odd number of students in the class, or there are students who are struggling.
Lead the "tour" portion of the dive.
Make sure the paperwork is complete.

Same here, but I have always seen DMs on boats in the U.S.--but not leading dives--just organising everything. We all know there is a BIG difference between that and the "DM Guide" for "Vacation Divers" in the tropics. Too bad that's the way it is.

 

[Bob DBF]

Same here, but I have always seen DMs on boats in the U.S.--but not leading dives--just organising everything. We all know there is a BIG difference between that and the "DM Guide" for "Vacation Divers" in the tropics. Too bad that's the way it is.

Right on point, my expectation on a dive boat is the DM is boat crew, a new and/or vacation diver may see the DM in the same role as in their SCUBA class, this is reinforced in their mind by the DM being in the water with them.


Bob

 

[NorCalDM]

Same here, but I have always seen DMs on boats in the U.S.--but not leading dives--just organising everything

In the UK:
You will not find DMs on a dive boat.

But as a DM, I work for a school (that belongs to a local inland site).
My main priority is to act as a safety diver for the instructor. I am there to rescue him/her if there is an issue. I also keep an eye on students who are not directly involved in skills.
But, I may also act as a buddy if there is an odd number of students in the class, or there are students who are struggling.
Lead the "tour" portion of the dive.
Make sure the paperwork is complete.

I DM in the same capacity here in California the difference is these are students we are working with so I believe your duty of care is different than a DM/ guide on a dive trip. A DM on a guided dive or a DM that stays on the boat as we do in California are dealing with certified divers who should take some responsibility for themselves but many times don't and are looking to that DM/guide for their safety. When I'm diving with a guide I want them to show me around their dive sights not teach me to dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

One thing that people don't seem to have considered is that the DM is an employee of the dive operation, and the dive operation wants to stay in business and thrive. A key part of staying in business and thriving is having happy customers who will both return themselves and recommend the operation to others. A skilled DM will evaluate each situation and do everything possible to keep the customer happy.

I have on several occasions seen DMs give a buoyancy lesson to a diver at the beginning of the dive. The rest of us were not happy to sit around and watch for 5 minutes, but we were (usually) much happier for the rest of the dive than we would have been if that lesson had not been given and the diver had continued to flounder throughout the dive. The DM did what had to be done to make a potentially disastrous dive the best it could be for everyone.

Sometimes the DM can be in a no-win situation. I once used a new dive operator in Cozumel on the advice of a friend who assured me that he would give great dives. (The owner of the operation was also the DM) I was apprehensive, because I try to avoid operations that do not have the ability to divide divers by experience. The first day I dived with him, we had only a few very experienced divers on the boat, and we had a great day. I was enthused. The next day the same group was joined by a husband and wife, and the wife needed a lot of help. He gave her a buoyancy lesson in the sand at the beginning of the first dive, and then literally took her by the hand for the rest of the dive, while we skipped all the canyons and swim throughs that were normally a part of that dive site. The second dive was similar--he held her hand from the beginning of the dive to the end, and the group drifted along on the outside of the reef. At the end of the day, the husband and wife were effusive in their praise, and I am sure he earned their undying loyalty. As for me, I will never be back.

 

[redacted]

Who is the DM/guide's buddy?

 

[halocline]

I am a fairly novice diver, and most of my dives have been warm water boat dives where I am a single. I have almost always buddied up with the DM (at their instruction). Now I know that the DM has responsibilities to the group, but a buddy is a buddy and should be mutually available to each other in case of emergency.

I try to say as close to the DM as I can, but it's clear that the DM is worrying about more then me, most noticeably periodically checking everyone's air and ndl, and escorting divers back to the boat for whatever reason. And it seems that also being a buddy expands the role of a DM beyond what may be safe. Is it considered acceptable for the DM to also be a buddy, and is this common practice?

I have come to the conclusion after my dive experiences (and after reading a lot on SB about personal safety) that I need to take more responsibility for my safety when diving as a single, even with my DM buddy close by. So as of my next dive I will be slinging a pony bottle, which will let me surface in an OOA situation and will buy me time to get sorted out by the DM or others in the group in case of some other type of emergency.

I think it's great that you are taking your personal safety seriously and recognizing the limitations of being buddied with the DM. But don't for a minute think that simply carrying a pony will make you any safer. It seems intuitive that it would, but there is no evidence that is does. There certainly are anecdotal indications that people 'feel' safer, but I think it's complicated as to whether or not that actually results in: A) greater safety, B) less safety (false confidence) or C) has no appreciable affect on actual safety. As an example, with the fatality in Cozumel that inspired this thread, the victim was found with plenty of air in her tank, as are many victims in dive accidents.

Everything else that you said in this post seems to me to be very well thought out, especially for a self described novice diver. I'm often in a similar situation in that I travel to Cozumel frequently by myself and am a de-facto solo diver within a group. I try to buddy up with another diver, and sometimes that works out well. The way I deal with the situation is simply to try to use my best judgement on the dives, stay close with the group and maintain good awareness. I do have fairly extensive dive training (DM, cave) and that has helped me to be a good problem solver and maintain good dive behavior and awareness. I think that's much more important than a pony bottle in OW, especially when there is a group present in the vicinity.

 

[NorCalDM]

One thing that people don't seem to have considered is that the DM is an employee of the dive operation, and the dive operation wants to stay in business and thrive. A key part of staying in business and thriving is having happy customers who will both return themselves and recommend the operation to others. A skilled DM will evaluate each situation and do everything possible to keep the customer happy.

I have on several occasions seen DMs give a buoyancy lesson to a diver at the beginning of the dive. The rest of us were not happy to sit around and watch for 5 minutes, but we were (usually) much happier for the rest of the dive than we would have been if that lesson had not been given and the diver had continued to flounder throughout the dive. The DM did what had to be done to make a potentially disastrous dive the best it could be for everyone.

Sometimes the DM can be in a no-win situation. I once used a new dive operator in Cozumel on the advice of a friend who assured me that he would give great dives. (The owner of the operation was also the DM) I was apprehensive, because I try to avoid operations that do not have the ability to divide divers by experience. The first day I dived with him, we had only a few very experienced divers on the boat, and we had a great day. I was enthused. The next day the same group was joined by a husband and wife, and the wife needed a lot of help. He gave her a buoyancy lesson in the sand at the beginning of the first dive, and then literally took her by the hand for the rest of the dive, while we skipped all the canyons and swim throughs that were normally a part of that dive site. The second dive was similar--he held her hand from the beginning of the dive to the end, and the group drifted along on the outside of the reef. At the end of the day, the husband and wife were effusive in their praise, and I am sure he earned their undying loyalty. As for me, I will never be back.

You are completely correct diving is a business and their customer service like any other business is what gets people in the door and keeps them coming back. I've been on dives just as you discribed were one diver with substandard skills dictated the dive. The diver on your dive got a buoyancy class at your expense and for me that's a problem when you are all paying for the same dive. I just think we as divers need to take some personal responsibility and not put it all on the DM leading the dive. I like diving here in California with the DM on the boat the only person that can ruin my dive is me or my buddy and if there is a knucklehead on the boat I can go my own way and not deal with them.

 

[Doc]

Regardless of what you may say about DMs having no responsibility for safety, there is indeed an expectation that they will act at a level of responsibility commonly associated with that position.

A dinner and movie also result in expectations. I was always a big fan of under promising and over delivery.

Customers need to collect broader life experiences so that they might better manage their expectations.

Not everyplace that you may go in this big world does a "DM" have a laminated card.

 

[crabbyfiddler]

A dinner and movie also result in expectations. I was always a big fan of under promising and over delivery.

Laughing so hard at you, Doc. Hope y'all are doing well..