Cozumel incident but lesson learned

[yle]

This was not a class, or an instructor - student situation.

I think you've hit on an important point with this statement. The OP hired a personal DM. And PADI DMs are allowed to do "refresher" courses (what PADI has rebranded "Reactivate".) Of course PADI DMs know the standards and procedures for running a refresher course, but people like the OP do not.

Which creates a seriously ambiguous situation like the one presented by the OP. He hired the DM because he and his wife were out of practice... so was this just another "DM leads people on a dive" situation, or was it a more formal (from the perspective of the OP) "refresher course"? The OP and DM might have had different expectations from their arrangement.

When the DM was hired to be their private DM, the burden of establishing the details of the arrangement falls on the DM, i.e. what his role will be during the dive, what the OP and his wife should and should not expect from the DM, etc etc, and it appears the DM failed to do that.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think you've hit on an important point with this statement. The OP hired a personal DM. And PADI DMs are allowed to do "refresher" courses (what PADI has rebranded "Reactivate".) Of course PADI DMs know the standards and procedures for running a refresher course, but people like the OP do not.

Which creates a seriously ambiguous situation like the one presented by the OP. He hired the DM because he and his wife were out of practice... so was this just another "DM leads people on a dive" situation, or was it a more formal (from the perspective of the OP) "refresher course"? The OP and DM might have had different expectations from their arrangement.

When the DM was hired to be their private DM, the burden of establishing the details of the arrangement falls on the DM, i.e. what his role will be during the dive, what the OP and his wife should and should not expect from the DM, etc etc, and it appears the DM failed to do that.

The OP does not mention doing a course with that DM, and what the DM did does not even remotely resemble a Reactivate Course. Such a course is shallow and focuses on relearning basic skills, almost like the original course. I think it is more than a little stretch to assume it was a part of the scenario.

 

[yle]

The OP does not mention doing a course with that DM, and what the DM did does not even remotely resemble a Reactivate Course. Such a course is shallow and focuses on relearning basic skills, almost like the original course.

I didn't assume it was part of the scenario. My point was simply that DMs and instructors know exactly what is included with an official "refresher" course, but the divers generally do not. It's been my experience that a diver that's been dry for a while will come into a shop and describe their situation: I've been out of the water for a while and I'd like to refresh my skills.

They then rely on the advice of the shop (or DM or instructor) to tell them what they need.

And that was the point of my post: the ambiguity in the situation. Some divers might not effectively communicate to their DM, instructor or shop "I need to refresh my skills." But if a diver hires a private DM and only tells the DM "I haven't been diving in a while", it's possible that the diver assumes they have communicated the idea that they need to refresh their skills, while the DM only hears "I'd like you to lead us on a dive... just like you do every day with other divers."

Inexperienced divers often don't know what they need or how to ask for it; so there is a bit of a burden on the dive pros to recognize that and act appropriately. It's part of assessing the divers you're responsible for, whether they are officially students, in a structured course, or just people you're leading that day.

 

[gcarter]

I think you've hit on an important point with this statement. The OP hired a personal DM. And PADI DMs are allowed to do "refresher" courses (what PADI has rebranded "Reactivate".) Of course PADI DMs know the standards and procedures for running a refresher course, but people like the OP do not.

Which creates a seriously ambiguous situation like the one presented by the OP. He hired the DM because he and his wife were out of practice... so was this just another "DM leads people on a dive" situation, or was it a more formal (from the perspective of the OP) "refresher course"? The OP and DM might have had different expectations from their arrangement.

When the DM was hired to be their private DM, the burden of establishing the details of the arrangement falls on the DM, i.e. what his role will be during the dive, what the OP and his wife should and should not expect from the DM, etc etc, and it appears the DM failed to do that.

The OP has stated that he over-relied on the DM where he should not have. I cannot for the life of me understand why some here are insisting on moving all the responsibility to the DM.

The OP has said NOTHING about doing a course. The OP has acknowledged and accepted that he should have done something different. Why are you looking to change that?

YOU own YOUR dive. Full stop. YOU make YOUR decisions. Full stop. Not a DM or guide or buddy of whatever sort. Ever.

He was NOT in a class, NOT doing a course.

 

[gcarter]

I didn't assume it was part of the scenario. My point was simply that DMs and instructors know exactly what is included with an official "refresher" course, but the divers generally do not. It's been my experience that a diver that's been dry for a while will come into a shop and describe their situation: I've been out of the water for a while and I'd like to refresh my skills.

They then rely on the advice of the shop (or DM or instructor) to tell them what they need.

And that was the point of my post: the ambiguity in the situation. Some divers might not effectively communicate to their DM, instructor or shop "I need to refresh my skills." But if a diver hires a private DM and only tells the DM "I haven't been diving in a while", it's possible that the diver assumes they have communicated the idea that they need to refresh their skills, while the DM only hears "I'd like you to lead us on a dive... just like you do every day with other divers."

Inexperienced divers often don't know what they need or how to ask for it; so there is a bit of a burden on the dive pros to recognize that and act appropriately. It's part of assessing the divers you're responsible for, whether they are officially students, in a structured course, or just people you're leading that day.

If the OP HAD intended to ask for a course and did not communicate that, how is that in any way on the DM? I think the OP is bright enough to know if he asked for or was charged for a course. I do not understand your persistence in attempting to dumb this down.

 

[yle]

If the OP HAD intended to ask for a course and did not communicate that, how is that in any way on the DM? I think the OP is bright enough to know if he asked for or was charged for a course. I do not understand your persistence in attempting to dumb this down.

Exactly my point, thank you. Divers (like the OP) tend not to know what constitutes a "course" and what doesn't. The OP did pay the DM in question for something. It's very possible that what the OP thought he was paying for and what the DM thought he was being paid for were two different things. But DMs and instructors know the difference because that's part of our training.

The DM in this story was paid to perform a job. When he was paid, he accepted the responsibility to perform the job. He failed to perform the job.

 

[yle]

If the OP HAD intended to ask for a course and did not communicate that, how is that in any way on the DM? I think the OP is bright enough to know if he asked for or was charged for a course. I do not understand your persistence in attempting to dumb this down.

I just realized I've been going about this the wrong way. Let me try a different way: if the OP had hired me as his personal DM for the day, I would have assumed a much higher level of duty of care and personal attention for the OP and his wife than what he describes in his original post.

I would not have ignored them during the dive and afterward told them "Hey, you're responsible for your own dive."

But that's just me, I guess.

 

[gt2003]

My wife and I had done a refresher lake dive prior to the trip with a local DM who took very good care of us. We fully explained our situation to him prior and he was very attentive. It was not a course with him but I fully explained our situation prior to the dive.

Cozumel was the same thing. The DM knew full well that I hadn't been diving (with the exception of the lake dive) in years and neither had my wife and he was told that it was her first ocean dive. We did not expect a course and did not pay for a course. However, the DM was told extensively about our situation.

Again, not assigning blame. I'm owning this 100%. Just providing info that relates to the previous posts.

 

[uncfnp]

To the op. It might be worthwhile to start a separate thread under Basic to discuss what we should and should not expect when we hire a private DM and what to do when they don’t meet expectations.

 

[boulderjohn]

Although I think that we can all say that the OP should have stood up to the guide, IMO the overwhelming responsibility lies with the guide. A couple who were not experienced and not confident hired a private guide in Cozumel because they were not experienced and not confident. They told the guide explicitly why they were hiring him. They expected him to do what he was hired to do. When he did not do that, they were confused--I believe understandably so. Who would think that someone you hired would intentionally stray so very far from the agreement? Why did they not stand up to him? Because they did not have the experience and confidence to do that, which is the reason they hired him in the first place.

It seems to me that a number of people are arguing that people who are not experienced in not confident in their diving and so hire a professional guide should be completely faulted for failing to demonstrate experience and confidence as soon as something goes wrong.