Spare Air on deep but no deco dives??

[Sevenrider860]

So I found this from an article back in 1987:

Late in 1986, Spare Air (which the military calls HEED II, for Helicopter Emergency Egress Device, Type Two) was approved, and Williamson got an initial order for 8,200 tanks, at $195 per canister. The prospect of a $1 million gross delights him, but Williamson says his best reward still comes from fellow scuba divers when they stop by to say, “You know, this is the greatest thing in the world. It saved my life.”

Have no idea if he still does business with the military but at one time he did.

Submersible Systems still produces the HEED 3. The device concept is also marketed as the Xtreme Sport and they sell industrial and personal fire/smoke safety targeted solutions.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I was corrected earlier, and figured I would pass this on instead of go look.

Spare Air - Info - Questions & Answers

Okay, can someone explain to me how something invented in 1986 has sold 200,000 units since 1979?

 

[Bob DBF]

Spare Air - Info - Questions & Answers

Spare Air was patented and was shown at its first trade show in 1979.

I believe '86 was when they went to the larger Spare Air, before that it was 2 or 2.5 cuft or something like that, I don't recall.


Bob

 

[BDSC]

Okay, can someone explain to me how something invented in 1986 has sold 200,000 units since 1979?

Because it was invented before 1986?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Because it was invented before 1986?

Well if you followed Bob’s link, the inventor claims 1986, so ....

It baffles me that there are apologists for this product. Planning for an emergency by doing an emergency swimming ascent from just a shallower depth is insane in my view.

That is not proper dive planning for solo dives. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that it an emergency when solo diving, having a properly sized gas source is mandatory.

 

[BDSC]

Well if you followed Bob’s link, the inventor claims 1986, so ....

This is directly from Bob's link:

Several versions of the idea of a canister that held extra air with no hoses came and went before "Spare Air" was born and with it Larry's commitment to educate the world about preventable drowning and safe diving. Spare Air was patented and was shown at its first trade show in 1979. Since then over 300,000 units have been produced and sold world-wide.

 

[Landlocked123]

My first purchase 10 years ago the day after I got my Open Water cert was a 19 inch pony. Today I own a 19 and a 30. I have never dove without one or the other. Unless you are diving in a true buddy team whom you are trained with extensively you are solo diving on every dive. Period..whether you realize it or not.

 

[caruso]

What do you mean by "make it safely to the surface"...? Do you think that the safety stop and a slow ascent is of no benefit? Not being facetious, but if there is no reason for doing it, then why do we do it?

It's an optional extra measure of safety. Why do some divers carry a 19 cf pony bottle, extra cutting tools, and an SMB on recreational dives and others don't? Because some prefer the extra measure of safety and others do not. Some people jump off of bridges with a length of cord attached to one ankle, others think it's crazy. It's all about risk/benefit/tolerance. What might work for you might not work for someone else.

And if there is a reason for doing a safety stop and a slow ascent, why would you put together a gear configuration and dive plan that wouldn't let you do that in an emergency?

Because the Spare Air is compact, easy to travel with, and easy to refill "on the go" and is less expensive to purchase and maintain than a pony bottle and full regulator.

Do you see my point? I can sort of see the argument for no redundancy on dives with no physical or virtual overhead - you basically have decided that you will just CESA if you have a catastrophic gas failure

No, I don't see this diver saying they're going to disregard the buddy system. In fact their original post clearly states they will be diving with a buddy. For the diver who started this thread, a Spare Air is simply an additional measure of safety that will be used only in recreational diving WITH a buddy.

On the other hand, buying a Spare Air means that you DO want to have more safety than just relying on CESA, and that you DO feel that the chance of being OOG is not insignificant. But now you have the worst of both worlds. You have the cost and yearly maintenance of an alternative gas supply, but you went out of your way to choose one that MIGHT be able to get you to the surface if you blow off the safety stop and just CESA for the last 20 feet anyway.

A Spare Air adds extra safety to a single tank rig, and costs next to nothing to maintain on a yearly basis after the initial purchase. Thanks for the opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions including the fact that a safety stop is an optional extra measure of safety and "blowing a safety stop" in the unlikely event of a catastrophic OOA emergency does not greatly increase the chances of getting bent. Nor does ascending at 60 ft per minute which is what was taught for decades and only recently was rather arbitrarily changed to 30 ft per minute.

 

[Landlocked123]

My ears tell me that not only is the safety stop good for them but a slow crawl from 15 to the surface is even better. Laugh at me if you want but I do one minute at 10, one at 5, and crawl from 5 to the surface on every dive. A spare air would not allow me to do this. I get about 9 dives a weekend in and my ears have loved me for it since i started doing this super slow ascent post safety stop. Call it overkill but I like me ears trouble free. I have seen folks rocket up from 15 like a missile just because they cleared their safety stop. I don't like the concept of a cesa. In my teen years i did them from 30-40 feet routinely when I spear fished without tanks as I always exhaled CESA style exhaling on the way up. To me a SpairAir does not provide ample gas to to the type of ascents I want to do. Emergency or no emergency and therefore I would never use one. Its 19 or larger. To each his own.

 

[doctormike]

It's an optional extra measure of safety. Why do some divers carry a 19 cf pony bottle, extra cutting tools, and an SMB on recreational dives and others don't? Because some prefer the extra measure of safety and others do not. Some people jump off of bridges with a length of cord attached to one ankle, others think it's crazy. It's all about risk/benefit/tolerance. What might work for you might not work for someone else.

If you are carrying a redundant gas supply, why not carry one that will for certain let you do your normal safe ascent? And if you don't think that the normal safe ascent is necessary, why do a safety stop at all?"

Because the Spare Air is compact, easy to travel with, and easy to refill "on the go" and is less expensive to purchase and maintain than a pony bottle and full regulator.

So when you fly with it, you have to empty it and then have it VIPed when you get there? You don't do yearly regulator service on it? That's not cheap.

Why is the spare air less expensive? I mean, it's $200. You can put together a cheap used pony bottle and reg for less than that. Maybe you can get Spare Airs used, I don't know. But not that much of a difference.

No, I don't see this diver saying they're going to disregard the buddy system. In fact their original post clearly states they will be diving with a buddy. For the diver who started this thread, a Spare Air is simply an additional measure of safety that will be used only in recreational diving WITH a buddy.

I'm getting confused here, you seem to be going back and forth. You either feel you need a redundant gas supply or you don't. All I'm saying is if you feel you need a redundant gas supply, get one that will let you do your normal, safe ascent. Also, get one that can't empty in less than six seconds at depth if it accidentally gets purged or free flows.

A Spare Air adds extra safety to a single tank rig, and costs next to nothing to maintain on a yearly basis after the initial purchase.

So no yearly reg service?

Thanks for the opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions including the fact that a safety stop is an optional extra measure of safety and "blowing a safety stop" in the unlikely event of a catastrophic OOA emergency does not greatly increase the chances of getting bent. Nor does ascending at 60 ft per minute which is what was taught for decades and only recently was rather arbitrarily changed to 30 ft per minute.

So again, do you ever do a safety stop? If so, why? I mean, if the additional safety is trivial, then why bother, just get out of the water three minutes earlier.

Again, why go out of your way to bring something that won't let you do a normal, safe ascent in case of catastrophic gas loss, and which can drain accidentally so quickly.