Fatal Record attempt in Garda Lake Italy

[tomfcrist]

Hanging one at the end of a long rope comes to mind, but there must be a reason that idea was rejected.

I was thinking an automated trigger and a wet pot could achieve the same thing.

 

[Banan]

Thank you for the additional information. Considering that it is your first message on this board, it would be useful if you could tell us what your source is.

You're welcome and I appreciate you don't trust a first time poster, but there is no secret, 'my' sources are generally available to everyone, i.e. the media (linked websites are Polish so you'll have to use google translate):

Kolejny Polak zginął we włoskim jeziorze Garda - Nurkowanie Jolly Diver
Wypadek na Gardzie – nowe informacje

Both are reliable, dive-specific outlets whose editors are often in direct contact with involved parties directly after incidents with Polish divers. This was the case with the divers24, who actually called Jarek Macedonski as soon as they found the Italian media articles to find out if he was OK (the first suspicion was that it was him). As opposed to general media (e.g. local newspapers), they actually know what they are talking about.

If this is true, the record was set in OC and apparently this is what it was diving.

According to the most reliable sources you will find at this point, i.e. the ones who have spoken to witnesses, he was on CCR. Please do not make assumptions based on an unrelated record dive in Egypt. I am sure more information on the gear used will follow, but for now the only source which mentions it at all, talks about CCR.

no indication of any surface support

Except for the Polish articles I have linked to.

Do not get confused with people who (successfully) dove CCR in the same place and the Polish guy who perished last year

Not confusing anything, as you will see from my post on the previous page.

He dove solo

Not sure how noteworthy it is for this type of dive. I mean, I am happy to get educated (I'm very far from being a technical diver) on how many dives below 300m have been done as a team? This is not to be confused with surface support.

A side note. Look, guys, I know I am 'new' here (as in not really new, but preferred to just read until I had something useful to contribute), but Adam being a Polish diver, this was particularly close to me and I also had details that I felt would help clarify the initial reports before any analysis follows. Not arguing anything (wouldn't dare to, knowing what diving legends frequent this forum), just filling the gaps. In the same spirit, I obviously respect everyone's opinions on extreme dives like those, however I believe a more in-depth analysis has more chance of making us wiser than a simple 'it was stupid to try that in the first place'.

 

[fsardone]

Not sure how noteworthy it is for this type of dive. I mean, I am happy to get educated (I'm very far from being a technical diver) on how many dives below 300m have been done as a team? This is not to be confused with surface support.

I am not going to comment on the rest of your message, since I was only reporting what news source were saying. If you have first hand knowledge your sharing is welcomed.

Concerning diving solo .... in such a dive.
I am not advocating going to depth in a team but you need a team in the water, bacause if you are diving OC you need so much gas that you cannot have on you, so you support divers will meet half way up will give you new stages and relieve you of unnecessary equipment so you can be more comfortable in the long deco hours.

If you are diving CCR, unless you forgo your bailout, reality is not much different. You either stage your bailout on the descent line (none mentioned here) or you have somebody in the water helping you (again no mention).

If you want to understand what it takes to prepare for a deep dive, please refer to Verna van Shaick - Fatally flawed - The quest for being deepest. It is a nice book actually written by somebody who did it and she also was the dive marshal for Dave Shaw last dive. She was (or is) the lady deep recordwoman and she also was in Nuno Gomes team (the former OC deep record holder before Ahmed Gabr).

The logistics, the training and the pressure (in all senses) you are under, are clearly explained.

It is always sad hearing of these losses. My condolences to you and all who knew him.

 

[coolwave3]

Very cool scooter though.

 

[BlueTrin]

Hanging one at the end of a long rope comes to mind, but there must be a reason that idea was rejected.

That’s probably a good way to do the tests but at some point you probably want to test with real dives, also I suspect the brands ‘sponsoring’ these records want the sales due to marketing.

 

[boulderjohn]

That’s probably a good way to do the tests but at some point you probably want to test with real dives, also I suspect the brands ‘sponsoring’ these records want the sales due to marketing.

Do you think there is a big market for scooters that have been tested to 330 meters? A year or two ago a man died when his scooter imploded at over 200 meters. I don't think a lot of people need much more than that kind of depth.

It is not a good idea to have your life rely in any part on technology that is being tested at crush depth without good backup plans. I know what I am talking about. Two divers who were friends of mine attempted a record dive at a high altitude lake. As in this dive, the deepest part of the lake was not easily accessible from shore. The used scooters for the sloping descent, and that was the plan for the sloping ascent, as well. That all changed with scooter failure during the dive--which was only one of the things that went wrong. They had to do a free ascent while doing a lot of decompression in the middle of the lake. It did not go well, and one of them died.

 

[BlueTrin]

Do you think there is a big market for scooters that have been tested to 330 meters? A year or two ago a man died when his scooter imploded at over 200 meters. I don't think a lot of people need much more than that kind of depth.

It is not a good idea to have your life rely in any part on technology that is being tested at crush depth without good backup plans. I know what I am talking about. Two divers who were friends of mine attempted a record dive at a high altitude lake. As in this dive, the deepest part of the lake was not easily accessible from shore. The used scooters for the sloping descent, and that was the plan for the sloping ascent, as well. That all changed with scooter failure during the dive--which was only one of the things that went wrong. They had to do a free ascent while doing a lot of decompression in the middle of the lake. It did not go well, and one of them died.

I am only saying two facts, which are not specific to diving:

• You need real-life testing at some point ? Until then, all lab testing is just lab testing
• If something is used as part of an expedition or world record, some brands will use this for marketing purposes, or will get some sales from it. Just from the fact that it was used in ‘extreme’ conditions and was reliable enough. I just read an ad for fourth element equipment used in an expedition. I do not think for a second that 4th element is targeting only people doing expeditions.

I never questioned whether it is sensible to use untested material or to try to beat a world record. This is outside my area of expertise anyway.

 

[boulderjohn]

You need real-life testing at some point ? Until then, all lab testing is just lab testing

I am not sure what you mean. Doesn't that depend upon what you are testing?

In several recent threads in the Diving Medicine forum, it has been revealed that the St. Jude company has tested its pacemakers under pressure and determined that divers can expect them to work at least to 7 atmospheres (about 200 feet). It did not say how they were tested, although a clue can be found from the fact that they also said that the pacemakers did not fail at deeper depths, they just lacked the capacity to test them deeper.

From that, I infer that they did not test them by sending cardiac patients on dives to different depths to see at what point their pacemakers would fail. They could easily have sent those patients to 8 atmospheres or more.

 

[BlueTrin]

I am not sure what you mean. Doesn't that depend upon what you are testing?

In several recent threads in the Diving Medicine forum, it has been revealed that the St. Jude company has tested its pacemakers under pressure and determined that divers can expect them to work at least to 7 atmospheres (about 200 feet). It did not say how they were tested, although a clue can be found from the fact that they also said that the pacemakers did not fail at deeper depths, they just lacked the capacity to test them deeper.

From that, I infer that they did not test them by sending cardiac patients on dives to different depths to see at what point their pacemakers would fail. They could easily have sent those patients to 8 atmospheres or more.

But in the end there is a first where you have to operate on a real patient. It is the same here, at some point you have to try it in real conditions.

I would have assumed that this scooter was somewhat tested before it was used.

Are you saying that they never tested that this scooter could theoretically whistand this depth ? If that’s the case it is a bit silly from the diver to have attempted a record with equipment not made for the attempt.

 

[dmaziuk]

But in the end there is a first where you have to operate on a real patient. It is the same here, at some point you have to try it in real conditions.

Really? You put a scooter in pressure pot and if it doesn't implode at 600 atm you can fairly safely assume it'll withstand 300 atm. With your patient, you put him under a blunt knife and cut twice as deep to simulate the "unreal" test? Or what?